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A Film About Women In Gaming Is Going Ahead

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Daradz Navagel
#1 - 2013-05-08 20:41:04 UTC
A friend of mine sent me this link today about a woman creating a documentary about women in gaming. The trailer she's put together (on the page) is compelling, and I hope that she has enough funding to finish the project. Looks like the project has a kickstarter page here, and it looks like she's reached her goal!

As someone who grew up with technology from an early age, and has seen the dominance of men in the industry, it's great to see a documentary focusing on women in the industry, and their influence and impact specifically on gaming. In the trailer, one of the interviewees states the following, "If they're not being denigrated, they're being treated as unicorns", and it really is true. There are a couple of scenes in the trailer showing screenshots of comments that are either insulting or demeaning. I'm always amazed by how cowardly adolescent men can be when 'hiding' behind a screen...

I know, I was once an adolescent man, but I find that those of us that were around from the 'beginning' in the early 90s had more respect (for both men and women) than those in the new generation of technology users.



Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#2 - 2013-05-08 21:28:48 UTC
Well Anita didn't exactly set the bar very high with her women in gaming kickstarter project. She raised $158k and producing one youtube video you could throw together over a weekend. A good commentary on it is here by a chap called Thunderf00t who's made a reputation for himself as dismantling idiotic nonsequicor arguments across the board.

Hopefully this one won't be such a spectacular failure as the last kickstarter project of this type.

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Daradz Navagel
#3 - 2013-05-09 00:56:22 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Hopefully this one won't be such a spectacular failure as the last kickstarter project of this type.
Based on the commentary video you posted (I had not seen the original Damsel in Distress video), it appears that this new project is about real women playing video games, and not female characters in video games. Personally, to me, a character in a video game, is the same as a character in a motion picture - fictional representation.

This new project is much more compelling as it describes the lives of women who are immersed in gaming either as a profession or for pleasure, and their experience playing in a field that is male dominated.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-05-09 00:57:14 UTC
Women in gaming documentary:

Chapter 1: Making sandwiches Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2013-05-09 01:06:37 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Women in gaming documentary:

Chapter 1: Making sandwiches Big smile

Silly Surfin, if gamers don't have domestic servant to make those, then they eat Hot Pockets and Cheetos.

Gals going to be too busy pwning n00bs to put ham on bread.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#6 - 2013-05-09 01:10:00 UTC
Daradz Navagel wrote:
This new project is much more compelling as it describes the lives of women who are immersed in gaming either as a profession or for pleasure, and their experience playing in a field that is male dominated.

I'm still wary of it being another blinkered approach to analysing gaming culture from a preconceived conclusion. Its highly competitive and testosterone fuelled so naturally its going to attract a lads culture. We play Eve, we know that a in such competition you look for any chink in the armour to **** off and throw off the opponents concentration and I have buttons and developed corresponding armour to deal with anything the might be fired my way.

Women who do end up immersed in this culture are in it for pretty much the same reasons, a few years ago a common empty threat was to hire a faction called Mercenary Coalition to come and **** your corporation and everything you held dear.

It was led by a bored housewife in her downtime and she was one of the most feared players in Eve's history.

That said there's a lot of women who play this game and never go on Voice chat, use male avatars ect to blend in better, seen all sorts over the years.

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2013-05-09 01:33:17 UTC
Are they gonna interview the two that play EVE ?



I kid.............

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#8 - 2013-05-09 01:35:37 UTC
I will admit that it would be interesting to see a properly made documentary like this being made, but at the same time im worried that it will be put forward in a way that enforces the idea that all female gamers are...well.. abuse the fact that they are females to gain something.
Thus making it even rougher to be a female in an online game and be taken seriously and not have to question weather or not you got your roles/job because you are a female or because you genuinely have done the work to deserve peoples respect and trust.

And of course there are females that abuse this to the fullest which also makes it more likely that this attitude is what will expected from female gamers.

I guess it all depends on how many different kinds of gaming personalities they manage to get together, and how many different games they use for the research.

Im also worried it will go down the very..standard way which seems to be "If a female gamer gets harassed its always the guy that is the problem!". Personally having had issues with this (EVE being my first online game i had a lot to learn) i have eventually learned to read the small signs that can indicate that something is not right, and taken steps to prevent it from going any further.
From what i have seen some women will (almost) encourage the behavior, almost tricking the guy(s) into thinking that they have a chance and then turn around and slap them in the face, or have others do it for them because suddenly the situation went out of control and its not "fun" anymore.

Please note that im not saying that female gamers will do this on purpose. I think its more how we talk and how we can feel more comfortable and outspoken while we are online and this can (im guessing) easely be confused as "flirting" or "sexual interest" for someone. I can also say that i have personally seen a female trying to just be friendly (talking, listening, understanding) have lead to some really uncomfortable situations because the attention alone was enough to trigger the idea that was more then a friendship there.

Sorry for the long post but its a very touchy subject so i want to do my best to make sure my feelings and concerns (and the reason behind them) are understood.

And to the OP. Thank you for the link! Forwarded to WGOE Smile
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#9 - 2013-05-09 01:47:57 UTC
Kirjava wrote:


Women who do end up immersed in this culture are in it for pretty much the same reasons, a few years ago a common empty threat was to hire a faction called Mercenary Coalition to come and **** your corporation and everything you held dear.

It was led by a bored housewife in her downtime and she was one of the most feared players in Eve's history.


Im not sure if you are talking about Seelene ,who was the founder of MC, but if so..he is most definitely a guy even if he uses a female avatar Smile
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#10 - 2013-05-09 01:51:27 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Kirjava wrote:


Women who do end up immersed in this culture are in it for pretty much the same reasons, a few years ago a common empty threat was to hire a faction called Mercenary Coalition to come and **** your corporation and everything you held dear.

It was led by a bored housewife in her downtime and she was one of the most feared players in Eve's history.


Im not sure if you are talking about Seelene ,who was the founder of MC, but if so..he is most definitely a guy even if he uses a female avatar Smile

If true I believe I smell egg frying on my face Oops

I was told that when I first joined Razor in 06 and have been working on that assumption for years, been a staple arguement of mine about the range of people that play Eve What?OopsOops

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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#11 - 2013-05-09 02:06:47 UTC
Kirjava wrote:

If true I believe I smell egg frying on my face Oops

I was told that when I first joined Razor in 06 and have been working on that assumption for years, been a staple arguement of mine about the range of people that play Eve What?OopsOops


Don't worry when i first started i was told he was a she as well Big smile
https://twitter.com/Seleene_EVE

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/eve-spotlight-mercenary-coalitions-seleene/

That being said, there are some female players out there that have made it further and gotten more recognition then the average player. I know at one point there was even a female only pirate corp and from what i know they did pretty decently.

But i cant think about anyone that got to the point where they had the same recognition and reputation as someone like Seleene, but this can just be because many female players also stay more...in the shadows.
What is that saying you use in english.. Behind every great man there is a great woman?

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-05-09 03:23:18 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Are they gonna interview the two that play EVE ?



I kid.............


No crap you kid... there are 3 Straight

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#13 - 2013-05-09 04:29:49 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Please note that im not saying that female gamers will do this on purpose. I think its more how we talk and how we can feel more comfortable and outspoken while we are online and this can (im guessing) easely be confused as "flirting" or "sexual interest" for someone. I can also say that i have personally seen a female trying to just be friendly (talking, listening, understanding) have lead to some really uncomfortable situations because the attention alone was enough to trigger the idea that was more then a friendship there.


speaking from personal experience, i agree with this 100%

the latter in particular. i've personally endured dozens of such situations and it has caused untold amount of awkwardness. somehow just being nice and outgoing in chat or on teamspeak/mumble gets interpreted in a completely unintended way by the other party. a greeting and a smile somehow getting misconstrued into romantic advances? how does this happen? worse...from there a downward spiral into somehow I am the problem? what's up with that?
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#14 - 2013-05-09 05:19:57 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:


speaking from personal experience, i agree with this 100%

the latter in particular. i've personally endured dozens of such situations and it has caused untold amount of awkwardness. somehow just being nice and outgoing in chat or on teamspeak/mumble gets interpreted in a completely unintended way by the other party. a greeting and a smile somehow getting misconstrued into romantic advances? how does this happen? worse...from there a downward spiral into somehow I am the problem? what's up with that?


Again trying to be very careful with how i word my self here...

I will not say that its purely the guys problem for misunderstanding signs and language used. Lets face it... Often times it will only be over text, and that makes things even harder. Now combine it with the fact that some people who play online games actually are like the stereotype...socially awkward, not sure how to talk to a female in general and any interaction with a female is enough for them to think that they have a chance.
I can imagine this gets even worse when you have talked to a person for quite some time and grown comfortable around them and then find out that its really a female...well I dont know about you but at least for me there has been times where someone suddenly changes their behavior completely after this is discovered.

Now for how a guy can claim its the girls fault... I can understand it.. As i mentioned earlier its easier to be outspoken, joke around, feel comfortable with who you are and so on while you are playing a game. And of course there are females that fully abuse it as i had mentioned earlier. If these girls realize them self what they are doing i dont know, but i have seen conversations in random public channels where even I think "Ok ok we get it! Your a female and you have boobs and you are great in bed! Give it a break now please!". Im no saint however, and i will fully admit that i can mess around and "flirt" with people from time to time, but i try to be very careful and only joke around like this with people that i know have no interest in me at all.

But i have been told that there are things about me that just sounds...well..flirty i guess weather or not i intend it to be, everything from my accent, to conversations that i don't consider unusual or odd in any way or form and how open i am when it comes to answering questions regarding more...girly stuff. I have even heard that a simple Blink makes what i say (err type) sound like im flirting.

So bottom line... Its both genders fault that these misunderstandings happen, but at the same time neither can be blamed for it. There is no clear defined rules on HOW the genders should communicate with each other, no well written guidelines on what words or phrases should be avoided and of course splitting the two genders is out of the question. And honestly im very happy this is not the case! If there where rules and guidelines we had to follow we would be walking around like it was a minefield and no one would be able to actually relax and just get to know each other, and thus you would remove any chance of someone actually evolving mutual feelings for each other, and end up together in real life.

But both genders needs to be more understanding of each other. Its easy to trash talk the guys for just thinking with their... well you know what i mean Blink And its easy to trash talk girls for not being able to do anything on their own and get everything for free because they have breasts.
What is not as easy is for girls to not abuse the fact that they are female (intentionally or not), and for guys to understand that just because a girl /hugs them in chat it does not translate to "Your welcome to take my pants off".

(I seriously have to stop with the walls of text! Lol )
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#15 - 2013-05-09 06:13:14 UTC
Well, hats off to this girl who used everything at her disposal to pull off a heist.

I have no objections, an Eve player is an Eve player first and formost, trust is expensive and if you know how to wriggle a discount, all the more power to you. I just have issue when these things happen outside Internet Spaceships.

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Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#16 - 2013-05-09 07:03:13 UTC
Concurssi Mellenar
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-05-09 11:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Concurssi Mellenar
5/5

On topic, It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this. I hope they take a rational approach to this documentary of theirs, unlike Sarkeesian.
For all of Thunderf00t's talk about how "the arena" doesn't care about anything other than your skill, Xbox Live seems to have an awfully large amount of people who shout sexist and homophobic crap at other players.
There are problems in other areas of gaming as well. Publishers sometimes refuse to put female lead characters on the box art's front cover, as happened with Bioshock Infinite. Remember Me had trouble with publishers, because players are put in the shoes of a female character who, at some point in the game, has an intimate moment with a man, and aside from Remember Me, there are only like three games that I can think of where players play as a female character for most of the game: Mirror's Edge, Beyond Good & Evil and Tomb Raider. It'd be nice to get a bit of variety in gaming, I'm getting pretty tired of playing a hairy, burly man whose daily pastimes include grunting, jerking off a shotgun, and commiting genocide.

He who controls the veld, controls the universe.

Commissar Akiga
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-05-09 11:08:01 UTC
That was probably the most ******** video I've ever seen.

Is it really any wonder that modern feminism is ignored or even ridiculed by many?

The video is littered with misinformation that half-wits no doubt lap up in a desperate attempt to be a part of something.

They really are grasping at straws now if this is what it has come to. I just have no time for it anymore... Tired of the "Canucks are out of the Playoffs. Better get my **** out and scream about oppression" mentality.

A man of genius makes no mistakes. His errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#19 - 2013-05-09 15:33:53 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Women who do end up immersed in this culture are in it for pretty much the same reasons, a few years ago a common empty threat was to hire a faction called Mercenary Coalition to come and **** your corporation and everything you held dear.

It was led by a bored housewife in her downtime and she was one of the most feared players in Eve's history.


I was also a dev for several years and look like Mila Kunis in real life. Cool

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#20 - 2013-05-09 16:02:14 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Women who do end up immersed in this culture are in it for pretty much the same reasons, a few years ago a common empty threat was to hire a faction called Mercenary Coalition to come and **** your corporation and everything you held dear.

It was led by a bored housewife in her downtime and she was one of the most feared players in Eve's history.


I was also a dev for several years and look like Mila Kunis in real life. Cool

Hot.

P

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

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