These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2461 - 2013-05-07 03:59:14 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:
geddon , as good as it was originally (and with no need of a change) is going to be a good pvp ship after the summer as well.

If you ask me though, the one with drones and neuts should've been the navy geddon (similar to navy scorp which has a completely different role, than the non navy version) .

Oh and BTW, saying there are no tiers, and raising the price of all BS, doesn't magically make it so. Geddon will always be a tier 1 ship for me, now that it's an odd duck it will be a tier 1 even more so.

And BTW is it me or do all amarr ships now need a cap injector just to shoot their guns???

how about not navy geddon, and instead they roll back the change until they have time for the art department to come up with a 4th tech one hull for at least amarr, as said oh so not very long ago in a dev blog and posts by devs in reference to what was intended for odyssey balancing?
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#2462 - 2013-05-07 05:10:32 UTC
Sticking post to a new page.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
AspiB'elt
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#2463 - 2013-05-07 06:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: AspiB'elt
The main problem is CCP forgot the roleplay.

Amarr must be slow
Heavy tanked
Use a lot of capa.

Amarr don't need to be fast because they have the range. (normally)

- The three battleship was fine the only think to change was remove the false bonus on capacitor and put a new bonus. (It's make with the new layout in odyssey).
- Increase the ship Capacitor.
- Increase the cpu and powergrid ( because now it's really crazy to fits, Amarr bs your are short all time in CPU and Powergrid).
Very often you need to fits nano plating because you are too short in cpu (in BS ...).
- And pls make something about Beam (because it's a nice gun, but now it's impossible to use them on BS and it's really easy to fit them in BC (oracle).

Attack battle ship is a joke for Amarr, because you need a lot of capa to fire and a lot of capa for mwd.

If CCP would like to make one BS in Attack battleship, you need to use the armageddon with drone and missile, because this layout require less capa (only mwd).

The Abaddon must be heavy tanked and dps in short range.
The apocalypse must be less tanked but more dps / range.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#2464 - 2013-05-07 09:48:23 UTC
AspiB'elt wrote:
The main problem is CCP forgot the roleplay.

Amarr must be slow
Heavy tanked
Use a lot of capa.

Amarr don't need to be fast because they have the range. (normally)


Are you an alt of Bouh Revetoile, who never undocked an Amarr BS in his life?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2465 - 2013-05-07 11:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
I think most do agree that Amarr should have slow ships probably the slowest ship even. Yet it does not mean that EVERY ship should be so. I am cross trained pilot and I am tired to see all the comments about slow amarr ships that are always traps. Very weak solo capability because the ships are just BRICKS.

Amarr should have BRICK/S but do not reduce whole Amarr empire to a BRICK. Amarr desperately needs flexibility and yes also mobility to at least some ships.

I think CCP has serious issue what comes to balance mids cap use and utility. For example for Amarr ship if you chose to fit propulsion module to mid it can often mean you lose -20% cap module or cap injector. If you fit MWD included to this you get cap size reduction that nukes your regen even more. Included to that your cap regen is completely nerfed by fitting MWD the freaking thing eats the rest of the cap that is left with the guns.

The issue was not so big if cap injectors would actually work but right now they are seriously broken concept. They consume charges way too rapidly (its not long term solution) its possible to even run out charges in one fight! It seems that its possible for Amarr ships to even out run the cap booster kicks.

Plus to that personally I think Amarrs need to be able to cross fit shields for shield fleets. You could also keep Amarr solid armor tank race but Amarrs then would need way to flex resistances between em/thermal/kinetic/explosion more efficiently. We got module that shifts resistances thanks CCP but sadly this is not enough! I do not want Amarrs to be the king or overpowered race but with all the limitations and vulnerabilities Amarr ships have its just so so so so sad.
Zhephell
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2466 - 2013-05-07 11:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhephell
Tonto Auri wrote:
AspiB'elt wrote:
The main problem is CCP forgot the roleplay.

Amarr must be slow
Heavy tanked
Use a lot of capa.

Amarr don't need to be fast because they have the range. (normally)


Are you an alt of Bouh Revetoile, who never undocked an Amarr BS in his life?


At least AspiB'elt wrote that they must improve the hull, that now it is impossible to do an attack BS for the cap issues, that you have fitting problems too, and he wrote that beams in BS are useless. That's another way to improve the disaster that CCP Rise did, and that's something Bouth Revetoil would never approve Lol
Bouth Revetoil is a troll, he must be happy annoying amarr players, when i saw his posts the first thing i can remember is that : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drZb5oi7xuQ

Have a discussion with him is less productive that try to convince a wall Roll

But for me the problem is that no one is reading our opinions, i don't see CCP Rise, it is funny to saw that he improved really fast the gallente BS, but is ignoring amarrian BS that have much more issues now.

CCP ll annoy all amarrian players that use BS: 1st the armageddon that was used a lot must change it's fit, and that's something new, because Fozzie in many balances take the example of the armageddon and the abaddon to do ships like the tormentor and the punisher, and some months ago everyone was saying that the armageddon would be fine like it was. The new role is good but it ll annoy a lot of people, that role should be done by a new BS in a future not by the geddon.

But for me the best that did CCP Rise ( Troll Rise for his amarrian friends) is the new Apoc, yes the apoc hadn't a good EHP as a PVP ship, and had a poor DPS for a BS. The only that was fine was it's stability, being good for PVE and having more fitting options, now it the same but with cap issues....

Well done CCP Rise, i'm sure that the team that is doing the new Apoc design http://i.imgur.com/5A9w99u.jpg will be very happy to see that this ship ll be useless because of you, and all those CCPs that don't read our posts.
Well done!! they must make you an statue, like Arcturus Mengsk, well a little bigger and with more gold ll be better for you Lol

Personally, I don't like what CCP is doing now, the gallente are being now the heroes of this game, i saw favoritism, i don't know if it is a commercial strategy or what, but finish doing a broken faction like the gallentes OP in many cases, is a bad balance.
Amarr and caldari BS must be good choices too, not only the rohk and the abaddon, and they ll have a nerf now. Many gallente players that want to win the 70% of the battles can said that with a 5% resistance bonus in the abaddon, it can use a nice active tank, that can be like the hyperion active tank, but an abaddon with lasers and an active tank has as many cap issues.
So an active abaddon ll be a joke, the hyperion with a new utility high slot using a neut, and an other low slot ll be better that an active tank abaddon allways. (o yes, it has more drones now too.. ) Lol

I know i wrote a long post, but i ll leave that game, if CCP plan is to nerf my ships and that i have to change my fittings or improve other BS skills and buy others BS to be competitive, they have done a mistake, i don't waste my time and my money to have to start again with other BS, so i leave, and if they don't have at last the dignity to read your posts i recommend you to do the same at least some months. In my case i don't think i ll return if they continue doing what they are doing, i ll wait to play the Star Citizen when it ll be finished.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2467 - 2013-05-07 11:38:06 UTC
Zhephell wrote:

But for me the problem is that no one is reading our opinions, i don't see CC Rise, it is funny to saw that he improved really fast the gallente BS, but is ignoring amarrian BS that have much more issues now.

CCP ll annoy all amarrian players that use BS: 1st the armageddon that was used a lot much change all it's fitting, and that's something new, because Fozzie in many balances take the example of the armageddon and the abaddon to do ships like the tormrntor and the punisher, and some months ago everyone was saying that the armageddon would be fine like it was. The new roll is good but it ll annoy a lot of people, that roll should be done by a new BS in a future not by the geddon.

But for me the best that did CCP Rise ( Troll Rise for his amarrian friends) is the new Apoc, yes the apoc hadn't a good EHP as a PVP ship, and had a poor DPD for a BS, a much useless dps that the oracle. The only that was fine was it's stability, being good for PVE and having more fitting options, now it the same but with cap isues....

Well done CCP Rise, im sure that the team that is doing the new Apoc design http://i.imgur.com/5A9w99u.jpg will be very happy to see that this ship ll be useless because of you, and all those CCPs that don't read our posts.
Well done!! they must make you an statue, like Arcturus Mengsk, well a little bigger and with more gold ll be better for you Lol

Personally, I don't like what CCP is doing now, the gallente is being now the heroes of this game, i saw favoritism, i don't know if it is a commercial strategy or what, but finish doing a broken faction like the gallentes OP in many cases, is a bad balance.
Amarr and caldari BS must be good choices too, not only the rohk and the abaddon, and they ll have a nerf now. Many gallente players that wan't to win the 70% of the battles can said that with a 5% resistance bonus in the abaddon, it can use a nice active tank, that can be like the hyperion active tank, but an abaddon with lasers and an active tanke has as many cap issues.
So an active abaddon ll be a joke, the hyperion with a new utility high slot using a neut, and an other low slot ll be better that an active tank abaddon allways. (o wait, it has more drones now too.. ) Lol

I know i wrote a long post, but i ll leave that game, if CCP plan is to nerf my ships and that i have to change my fittings or improve other BS skills and buy others BS to be competitive, they have done a mistake, i don't waste my time and my money to have to start again with other BS, so i leave, and if they don't have at last the dignity to read your posts i recommend you to do the same at least some months. In my case i don't think i ll return if they continue doing what they are doing, i ll wait to play the Star Citizen when it ll be finished.


Sorry for long quote usually don't do it.. Anyway to get to the point. I do agree with you on most parts.

However I would not speak about gallentes being the favorite. If you look at whole winmatar ship line and t1 hull kill mails over whole eve history you will probably end up in conclusion that rust buckets are the favorite.

I also would not put all blame on CCP Rise. He has his part yes but its CCPs standing as corporation what I am so sad about. CCP Rise is really good PVP and roam pilot who enjoyed lot of his EVE time in small t1 ship hulls. It had made more sense to put him on for example faction ships. Because thats what he is good at. Now we got real disaster in most BS lines and build cost. Its clear that CCP Rise does not favor BS size ships I do not know his experiences that much but did he ever really fly them?

I would also remind that BS ships are the only ship hull size that actually benefit from tiers.

  1. training time new pilots need a easyish BS to train into to get started in their EVE career
  2. PVP pilot and New pilots need CHEAP platform to start with
  3. We need fleet and meta game BS for every race
  4. I also believe that every race should have also ewar hull but this should not come in sacrificing other good ships!


Odyssey is not a failure there are nice and good changes but what is currently happening to BS just makes me cry. Thank you CCP!
Zhephell
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2468 - 2013-05-07 13:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhephell
sry double post
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2469 - 2013-05-07 14:51:17 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
I think most do agree that Amarr should have slow ships probably the slowest ship even. Yet it does not mean that EVERY ship should be so. I am cross trained pilot and I am tired to see all the comments about slow amarr ships that are always traps. Very weak solo capability because the ships are just BRICKS.

Amarr should have BRICK/S but do not reduce whole Amarr empire to a BRICK. Amarr desperately needs flexibility and yes also mobility to at least some ships.

I think CCP has serious issue what comes to balance mids cap use and utility. For example for Amarr ship if you chose to fit propulsion module to mid it can often mean you lose -20% cap module or cap injector. If you fit MWD included to this you get cap size reduction that nukes your regen even more. Included to that your cap regen is completely nerfed by fitting MWD the freaking thing eats the rest of the cap that is left with the guns.

The issue was not so big if cap injectors would actually work but right now they are seriously broken concept. They consume charges way too rapidly (its not long term solution) its possible to even run out charges in one fight! It seems that its possible for Amarr ships to even out run the cap booster kicks.

Plus to that personally I think Amarrs need to be able to cross fit shields for shield fleets. You could also keep Amarr solid armor tank race but Amarrs then would need way to flex resistances between em/thermal/kinetic/explosion more efficiently. We got module that shifts resistances thanks CCP but sadly this is not enough! I do not want Amarrs to be the king or overpowered race but with all the limitations and vulnerabilities Amarr ships have its just so so so so sad.

Amarr doesnt need to be minmatarded, we dont need to "ross fit for shields", were an armor race.

the only issue we ever had was cap, not our speed, the speed could be rectified EASILY if we were allowed to fit a prop mod. the ONLY thing CCP would have had to change to balance Amarr ships compared to everyone else, would be to increase our cap and cap regen SIGNIFICANTLY.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2470 - 2013-05-07 15:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

Amarr doesnt need to be minmatarded, we dont need to "ross fit for shields", were an armor race.

the only issue we ever had was cap, not our speed, the speed could be rectified EASILY if we were allowed to fit a prop mod. the ONLY thing CCP would have had to change to balance Amarr ships compared to everyone else, would be to increase our cap and cap regen SIGNIFICANTLY.


Thats completely different topic yet since you brought it up.

Amarr needs flexibility in resistance. Also Amarr ships should not be left out from fleets that specialize to shields. Yes they should not be best but they should not be excluded. This same goes for Caldari. Caldari ships should not be left out from armor fleets. They should not be the best armor tank ships but they should be able to do that job.

Amarr also needs either flexibility in damage type (drones or launchers) or new game mechanic that enables lasers and hybrids pierce through the resistance type they deal. Taht lasers raw DPS has to be higher than other weapon systems simply causes more grief because people who fly the ships say the damage is ok and those who look the raw numbers are like OMG!!! lasssers are so OP!!!. I hope that they add mechanism that can bring laser DPS on the level of other weapon systems. So that we can keep lasers as iconic Amarr weapon system. Third option would be actually re minnify Amarr ship giving them optinal launcher slots that you could use to gain different damage types.

Those are facts it might not fit your view about Amarr but to get the races truly in balance we need these changes.

What comes to fitting mods for speed. Those mods take away either damage mod or tank mod. Included they also take away trivial things like cargo hold, structure or give signature radius. CCP cannot add low slots to Amarr ships because if they would give us more low slots we would be able to either make impossible tank or over DPS. So it does make bit of sense that you lose tank when fitting these stats but with Amarr ships you can easily gimp yourself with other aspect. What I refered to was that Geddon could be basically attack BS that could have little faster speed in comparison to regular Amarr ships. But attack BS concept will never work because of fucky cap of Amarr ships. Plus Geddon is a lost cause now.

Cap is also an issue especially in PVP where Amarr lack mids to fit proper cap capacity / regen since every mid mod we fit is basically out from cap regen. If CCP would give bigger cap pool and little bit more regen we could probably be able to use some of those slots to something useful.

All in all this all comes down to ship versatily. Amarr have really really little versatility well (excluding the new Geddon which is not Amarr boat..) Amarrs will need to flex one of those things is to get proper cap that we can actually use those precious mid slots to something else that keep our ship just not to shutdown.
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2471 - 2013-05-07 16:47:56 UTC
Oh, stop demonizing poor CCP Rise. He has a job to do and no one is going to be one hundred percent happy with it. Have a little faith that he might know what he is on about. Do we really need our hand held, to plead for his undying attention and kisses to our buttocks? He is probably reading this or having the good stuff forwarded. DEVs have their own reasons for doing things that frankly will not always agree with our wants but really are intended for the good of the game. Maybe some of these seemingly insane capacitor stats are forward planning for whatever they intend to do with laser turrets after Odyssey? IDK. Make the best thread argument you can for your way of thinking and leave it at that without going mental.

I KNOW its frustrating. Sure, I am REALLY unhappy with the gaps in Amarr Battleship line up and the lack of versatility and ships for roles I feel should be covered. However, I am now hoping some of that can be fixed with the naval versions next re-balance. I’d love a tracking disrupter oriented EWAR ship and a versatile gunnery combatant to compete with the Gallente Hype at the battleship level. Maybe I can get what I want then? Maybe not.

If it all ends up being a trip to a Minmatar BBQ as the roast of honor and as horrible as feared we can gather at the statue in Amarr and throw down until they get the point. Until then, let’s show some patience and maybe try to figure out why they are balancing stuff as they are. I know its hard to belive but lets assume they aren’t stupid and have a reason for doing this.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#2472 - 2013-05-07 17:30:14 UTC
124 pages, 124 pages of win and awesome.

My guess is that this 124 pages are full of congratulations, joy and gratitude for all those top-notch bs changes. Good work!

Interesting thing, CCP Rise have more tweets than posts here from 04.08 till now, and that is just extremely hilarious.

Tank Talbot wrote:
Oh, stop demonizing poor CCP Rise. He has a job to do and no one is going to be one hundred percent happy with it. Have a little faith that he might know what he is on about. Do we really need our hand held, to plead for his undying attention and kisses to our buttocks? He is probably reading this or having the good stuff forwarded. DEVs have their own reasons for doing things that frankly will not always agree with our wants but really are intended for the good of the game. Maybe some of these seemingly insane capacitor stats are forward planning for whatever they intend to do with laser turrets after Odyssey? IDK. Make the best thread argument you can for your way of thinking and leave it at that without going mental.

I KNOW its frustrating. Sure, I am REALLY unhappy with the gaps in Amarr Battleship line up and the lack of versatility and ships for roles I feel should be covered. However, I am now hoping some of that can be fixed with the naval versions next re-balance. I’d love a tracking disrupter oriented EWAR ship and a versatile gunnery combatant to compete with the Gallente Hype at the battleship level. Maybe I can get what I want then? Maybe not.

If it all ends up being a trip to a Minmatar BBQ as the roast of honor and as horrible as feared we can gather at the statue in Amarr and throw down until they get the point. Until then, let’s show some patience and maybe try to figure out why they are balancing stuff as they are. I know its hard to belive but lets assume they aren’t stupid and have a reason for doing this.


No one is demonizing "poor" CCP Rise, people just voice their concerns about this changes and lack of response from Rise.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#2473 - 2013-05-07 17:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Apostrof Ahashion
Just to point out something:

Harbinger Cap - 4038 peak recharge - 16,9 (has cap use bonus as well)
Drake Cap - 3125 peak recharge - 15,8
Hurricane Cap - 2813 peak recharge - 15,8
Brutix Cap - 3750 peak recharge - 15,8
Prophecy Cap - 3563 peak recharge - 15,8

Maller Cap - 2031 peak recharge - 14,6
Caracal Cap - 1536 peak recharge - 11,7
Rupture Cap - 1594 peak recharge - 12,5

Etc.... Amarr laser boats have a cap advantage, and that does not make them OP. I really dont get this capacitor normalization across the battleship class, buffing capacitors of missile boats and ewar boats that were already practically cap stable. Buffing capacitor on Amarr battleships is not going to make them op, it will just make them much more accessible to new players, and will give older players some fitting choices.

Take in consideration what Abaddon with 2 discharge rigs and constant use of Navy 800 batteries has 2 min of run time. That is pathetic for a ship that should be all about staying power. And even if you buff the capacitor so we can drop one discharge rig considering the nerf to resistances it will practically have the same EHP as it has now if you fit it with trimark armor pump.

Also for example Raven has 19.2 peak recharge (and it got buffed this patch, i cant be bothered to do the math but lets assume it is over 20 now), Abaddon has 21. When we look at Caracal and Maller not only is the difference in cap advantage that amarr have less in % it is also just straight less. Hardeners always use the same cap, ewar uses the same cap, the only modules that use more cap on battleships than on cruisers are guns and propulsion (and repair modules but that makes things only worse for Amarr). Everyone fits same prop module, and launchers use no cap at all. Mega Pulse uses more than 2x the cap of Heavy Pulse. Maelstorm and Hyperion have huge cap because they were made to active tank. But they dont have to active tank. Abaddon has to fire.

Buff Amarr battleship capacitors, give them the same advantage they have in other hull classes. It wont break anything, with resistances nerf Abaddon will have aprox 1.5k more ehp with another trimark instead of discharge rig.

And please dont destroy our 8 lows utility high gunship. We love it.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2474 - 2013-05-07 17:46:33 UTC
If Rise would come here and post some fits or explain how we are all wrong, that will be great.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#2475 - 2013-05-07 17:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arline Kley
Tank Talbot wrote:
Oh, stop demonizing poor CCP Rise. He has a job to do and no one is going to be one hundred percent happy with it. Have a little faith that he might know what he is on about. Do we really need our hand held, to plead for his undying attention and kisses to our buttocks? He is probably reading this or having the good stuff forwarded. DEVs have their own reasons for doing things that frankly will not always agree with our wants but really are intended for the good of the game. Maybe some of these seemingly insane capacitor stats are forward planning for whatever they intend to do with laser turrets after Odyssey?


However, starting a thread, clearly stating that you will listen to the players, before utterly abandoning them is the reason people are not happy Tank. While I admit I have been probing towards CCP Rise, I just want him to actually read what the players are stating, rather than utterly relying on the "Metrics. "

Sometimes our information comes to us via entirely different threads to this one.

Tank Talbot wrote:
I KNOW its frustrating. Sure, I am REALLY unhappy with the gaps in Amarr Battleship line up and the lack of versatility and ships for roles I feel should be covered. However, I am now hoping some of that can be fixed with the naval versions next re-balance. I’d love a tracking disrupter oriented EWAR ship and a versatile gunnery combatant to compete with the Gallente Hype at the battleship level. Maybe I can get what I want then? Maybe not.


You do realise Tank, that the Naval versions of the ships are literally going to be the ships we are flying now, with just a fancy paint job. The problem most people are having with these changes is that they serve absolutely no purpose, other than to further punish players for trying to fly Amarrian ships. We don't want a ship that is stepping on the toes of 3 other ships, and neither do we want a ship that has zero bonuses to the supposed main weapons system of the Amarr.

While having a ship that does another job is always welcome, trashing an entire racial battleship line for such is never welcome.

Tank Talbot wrote:
If it all ends up being a trip to a Minmatar BBQ as the roast of honour and as horrible as feared we can gather at the statue in Amarr and throw down until they get the point. Until then, let’s show some patience and maybe try to figure out why they are balancing stuff as they are. I know its hard to believe but lets assume they aren’t stupid and have a reason for doing this.


Unfortunately Tank, patience can only last for so long before we are get annoyed - given CCP's past history, it is better to err on the side of caution and understand that they don't actually have a clue what they are doing.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2476 - 2013-05-07 18:25:15 UTC
That have already been said, but the Abaddon was designed with this cap weakness originaly, and we can't say that really prevent it to become a renowned and mighty battleship. Its poor cap is only here to compensate for the rest.

Tier3 BS were the most balanced BS, and never heard anyone complain about them in the past. They were the best BS you can have, and with the tiericide, their performances haven't changed.

The worst to happen could be a "Rifter effect", but considering the changes, that's very unlikely : no other armor ship have a resist bonus, so the tank of the Abaddon will still be unmatched, and the the primary reason for its effectiveness.

To top it off, large laser received a buff too. Pulse will be better than ever, and beams will be usable. You still won't be able to fit everything you want for beam setup, but that will be possible with no fitting module, and the cap will be easier than before.
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#2477 - 2013-05-07 19:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Antaris
Theia Matova wrote:
Its clear that CCP Rise does not favor BS size ships I do not know his experiences that much but did he ever really fly them?


Most of his older vids are nearly exclusively done in the geddon and abaddon. Most of them where done before the QR expansion where the BS class where more useful as solo/small gang pvp ships(more speed, 90% webs, pretty soft nano targets, no TEs and therefore a lot less range on smaller hulls etc.).

You can watch one right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2psM6BC3Jo&pxtry=1
Loki Vice
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2478 - 2013-05-07 19:26:24 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Im glad you are still watching, but I do not think amarr going to right direction. You are making them weaker, by reducing efficiency of armor tank (resistance bonuses) and boosting other races (8low slots on gallente) and taking away 50% bonus on capacitor and giving 10% instead. But my biggest concern is direction where EVE seems to be going - more and more benefits for new young players, and taking away advantages from older players with more skills and bigger budgets. Soon 10 t1 cruiser will be taking on triage archon, so new players are happy they killed capital ship with their 5 mil isk cruisers and 4 weeks skills. In 2 years everyone will be flying t1 cruisers and other rubbish, because flying expensive and big ships will not make any sence as "gain versus price+skills required' ratio will be so low.
example

augoror - 92 km rep range 598hp repaired / 5sec
guardian - 68km rep range 384 hp repaired /5sec - guardian costs many times more and requires a lot more skills ofc
archon - 52 km rep range 1500hp repaired / 5sec- and we talking here about capital ship with 1 capital module costing more than whole fitted augoror and requiring tons of skillpoints


Resistance bonuses are problematic for very clear reasons which Fozzie has done a great job articulating. The ships that field them have a range of power and application and should each be addresses relative to the new changes individually, rather than making oversimplified "amarr is getting weaker" conclusions.

There is virtually no power based conclusions you can make about the relationship between 8 low mega and amarr as an overall race design. You need to be much more specific on how that is a problem.

Closing the gap between new players and old players in some areas is definitely positive. If you notice that EVE gets to a point where you would rather have less ISK and SP let me know, we'll fix it asap.

I'm curious about your augoror vs guardian comparison - I'm guessing your aurgoror has some other issues that you are leaving out.


CCP kil2, missing for almost 2 weeks, gg guys, no matter what you want, Kil2 just has to have his way
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#2479 - 2013-05-07 20:42:18 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
That have already been said, but the Abaddon was designed with this cap weakness originaly, and we can't say that really prevent it to become a renowned and mighty battleship. Its poor cap is only here to compensate for the rest.

Tier3 BS were the most balanced BS, and never heard anyone complain about them in the past. They were the best BS you can have, and with the tiericide, their performances haven't changed.

The worst to happen could be a "Rifter effect", but considering the changes, that's very unlikely : no other armor ship have a resist bonus, so the tank of the Abaddon will still be unmatched, and the the primary reason for its effectiveness.

To top it off, large laser received a buff too. Pulse will be better than ever, and beams will be usable. You still won't be able to fit everything you want for beam setup, but that will be possible with no fitting module, and the cap will be easier than before.


If you really think Hyperion was in a good place, or that Maelstorm is balanced or are you just trolling? And may i point out that Abaddon was nerfed this expansion. And that other battleships got more cap, cap they dont need.

Is Maller op because it has the cap to use its guns? Will Abaddon become op when you can get those 2 min of run time with "just" one discharge rig and constant use of navy 800? As i pointed out with the resistance nerf if you put trimark instead of discharge rig in that slot you will jump from 113200 to 114500 ehp. Or you could put pg rig in there and can use beams on something other than nightmare/paladin. Is Abaddon more used now than other battleships? No. Will turning its 2 min capacitor to 3,5 min capacitor with all 5 skills make it op? No, it will just make it useable again.

And also almost every other battleship got capacitor boost, they all have the same cap. This is only the case with battleship hulls, Amarr have the advantage in battlecruisers and below that allow them to fire their guns with "just" one discharge rig or capacitor booster. Making Amarr to waste 3 slots on their battleships just to fire their guns is bad design.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#2480 - 2013-05-07 21:10:44 UTC
Not to mention how Amarr got basically nerfed across the board (im not looking at this Armageddon at all, time will prove it useless).

Apocalypse just became another cap hungry beast that has nothing going for it. Tempest now is still faster, can be shield tanked, is cap stable with mwd off, does more damage up to 40km thanks to its double damage bonus, and now even has better tank, no matter how you tank it. And on top of that can use all 3 rigs and does not need a cap booster in the mids and since it can fit tracking enhancers has better tracking as well. And i wont even start about new Megathon.

Amarr got shafted on all fronts, even Caldari got at least a buff to cruise missiles and capacitor buff (strange, unneeded and unexpected buff) on their missile and e-war ship. This is a joke.