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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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dagley
Veyr
The Veyr Collective
#2441 - 2013-05-06 09:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: dagley
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
they wont change the domi, because they want the AMARR to have the vamp/neut/missile+lasers/drone boat.




Ok CCP AMARR don't want a vamp and drone boat leave our cheapest laser turret battleship alone if we want a drone and vamp boat we will train gallente trying to solve a problem that does not exist. The geddon is fine it has been for the past 10 years amarr is about lasers and lots of them drones are gallente's thing and always has been. Your trying to make it that all the races are the same effectively and they are not the same they are very different.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2442 - 2013-05-06 09:26:55 UTC
dagley wrote:
Ok CCP AMARR don't want a vamp and drone boat leave our cheapest laser turret battleship alone if we want a drone and vamp boat we will train gallente trying to solve a problem that does not exist. The geddon is fine it has been for the past 10 years amarr is about lasers and lots of them drones are gallente's thing and always has been. Your trying to make it that all the races are the same effectively and they are not the same they are very different.

Bad news for you : the Armageddon will not be cheap anymore. Expect its price to double (more or less).
John 1135
#2443 - 2013-05-06 09:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: John 1135
Beaver Retriever wrote:
You seem to not know the difference between the Revelation and the Revenant.

I do, but I see my typing fingers did not. Sadly, I have to give my personal forum posts editor a day off every year, and that day was today.

Beaver Retriever wrote:
The Devoter is the best, and preferred HIC for armor fleets everywhere. Curses and Bhaals are pretty much the only options for cap warfare beyond getting 200 dual neut Tempests or Cyclones.

Yes. Your point?

Mine is that no Amarr BS will be preferred in any role, going forward.

The other ships were there for context: not to peg their precise standings. This is a thread about battleships.

It strikes me that NApoc might enjoy an indian summer (between buffs to lasers and whenever they get around to shafting it in line with Apoc). Or will it be included in Odyssey?
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#2444 - 2013-05-06 10:16:29 UTC
CCP want the Baddon to fill the role of the BS fleet ship that gets whelped by the Shield alpha window lickers and they making that easier to do as well just so the poor noobs not have to train up any more gunnery skills.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#2445 - 2013-05-06 10:18:37 UTC
Abaddon could be a bit faster. This would be great.
It is quite hard to maintain the range with this ship when ha have two 1600mm plates and 3 trimark....

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
John 1135
#2446 - 2013-05-06 10:34:47 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Abaddon could be a bit faster. This would be great.
It is quite hard to maintain the range with this ship when ha have two 1600mm plates and 3 trimark....

FWIW I've always thought of the Abaddon as a ship that does not slowboat anywhere. It sits on grid like a brick and soaks the punishment up. That's where the resist nerf will hit different ships in different ways.

Shield tanks will remain able to interact with range. Armour tanks will remain unable to interact with range. (With the caveat that one still has to see how MJD's play out. My guess is that their cycle is too long for real usefulness right now but that could easily change.)

I don't think that's wrong as it produces a meaningful distinction between tanking styles. Of course, the resist nerf then possibly hurts armour-tanking more than it hurts shield-tanking, since the former relied on an advantage in time, rather than in position.
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#2447 - 2013-05-06 10:43:45 UTC
The Abaddon already seemed to be a useless ship for pve for me, with its low speed and cap not compensated with really exciting tank and damage... And my expectations on Apoc (I was thinking of training for t2 laser/armor fit to give it a try) are also broken now, with its decreased range and still no damage bonus.

And yes, it seems to me that you're making it like armor=drones, why not more shield drone bats instead? (and this all evolved from one tiny Arbitrator... Oh my)
dagley
Veyr
The Veyr Collective
#2448 - 2013-05-06 14:28:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

It makes sense for Amarr to have a battleship variation that rewards players who've trained for dragoon -> arbitrator -> prophecy, and with the neut range bonus, the Armageddon should be a huge payoff.



I just noticed what about the people who trained amarr bs lvl 5 for the only amarr BS to have a ROF bonus so get a geddon with a less than 3 sec ROF with mega pulses?

Oh but you got to think about the noobies training up sod them what about the eve vets who have used this ship for very close to 9 years and would very much like you to leave it alone and more to the point have paid for 9 years of eve compared to someone with a few months????

Nice to know where your priority's lie.
kcab
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2449 - 2013-05-06 16:30:53 UTC
Hi

I'm usually not reading the forums. But the new ship changes got my attention.

I'm just going to throw in my opinion for now.

For me, the 'Geddon always was more like a Tempeste (attack BS).
If CCP is going to change it, Amarr won't have a BS in this role.

The Abaddon is much like a mini Revelation ATM. You can sit there, shoot your lasers. If you want to do anything else you need to waste a mid slot for a Cap Booster. If you have enough cap you're still a bit immobile, because the abaddon is really, really heavy/slow. If CCP really thinks this is an attack BS... Question

And I don't get why they want to remove the Cap bonus anyway. I always thought CCP did this, because capacitor means damage for Amarr BS (higher ROF = higher cap drain).

Please do not hesitate to flame me in case of total noobness


kcab
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#2450 - 2013-05-06 16:34:55 UTC
kcab wrote:
Hi

I'm usually not reading the forums. But the new ship changes got my attention.

I'm just going to throw in my opinion for now.

For me, the 'Geddon always was more like a Tempeste (attack BS).
If CCP is going to change it, Amarr won't have a BS in this role.

The Abaddon is much like a mini Revelation ATM. You can sit there, shoot your lasers. If you want to do anything else you need to waste a mid slot for a Cap Booster. If you have enough cap you're still a bit immobile, because the abaddon is really, really heavy/slow. If CCP really thinks this is an attack BS... Question

And I don't get why they want to remove the Cap bonus anyway. I always thought CCP did this, because capacitor means damage for Amarr BS (higher ROF = higher cap drain).

Please do not hesitate to flame me in case of total noobness


kcab


That's pretty much the general opinion on these changes.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2451 - 2013-05-06 21:32:28 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Hey!

The current plan is to update Singularity in the middle of next week, but I am not able to promise this date. I'll update this thread, if I am notified about any changes to this plan.

Mirror: Currently not planned, but the automatic reactivation of accounts should be in place by then (hopefully earlier).


This was posted on 4/30/2013. In a few more days the test server should be updated with the re-balanced ships per CCP. Considering, I doubt that further debate here will accomplish much of anything as the new vessels are likely set in stone. Somehow, I figure they are only open for tweaking in the future rather than actual substantive revision. I will be reading the Amarr ship threads there to see what some of you think when actually using them.

CCP Rise wrote:
Exciting roles for every ship and every race - One of our main goals during this balance pass is to see that each battleship has a lot to offer, and that each race has access to all of Eve's environments. Formerly, the battleship line had strange overlaps and gaps which left certain races excluded from certain styles of play and other races with more than one option for a certain role. This new distribution should hopefully provide new options and excitement for players of all races.


I would save this quote. When you point out that the Amarr ships lack for options in a particular role and play style, if a DEV or other notable figure dares to tell you to train the ships of another race, you have the teams own written word to show a clear cut failure to meet their own purported design objective. There are gaps that were supposed to be fixed. I don't say that to be mean or disrespectful. Only to ensure a good outcome for everyone that keeps them and us on track to make for great game play. No one should be left to regret ever having trained to fly the most noble Amarr, rookie or vet.

Times I wish I didn't care so much about games. Lol
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2452 - 2013-05-06 22:27:28 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Tank Talbot wrote:
But you also express one of my worries. People giving up on Amarr battleships (and their other ships) because they have been designed out of too many roles leaving everyone else to do everything better for less investment. Talk about killing some rookie's play enthusiasm after skilling for months only to find no one wants their boats along for the show and they are not competitive. How to get new Amarr FW pilots and those that actually fly Amarr? Once people give up on a ship line it will take years to recover any momentum on several fronts. It shouldn't be allowed to happen.


The Devs have long expressed that they don't care what all is wrong with the Abaddon so long as it continues in their preferred place for it in blob fleets. Sad, but true.

They have even expressed that they really don't care how bad it and other ships are to begin with for PvE, and that these changes only make them worse, because in their opinion such pilots should just go and train for easier ships for it instead. (yea, great message to send out for those that like me started out PvE heavy and only gradually get into PvP "your ship sucks, get over it and train for something else.")

I even tried getting ahold of our upcoming CSM 8 whom we elected into office, and was basically told "The Abaddon's issues are to small of an issue for us to waste our time on." So much for the Devs telling us to contact them about problems.


They are politicians, what do you except? The minute they get elected their priorities change.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Drunken Bum
#2453 - 2013-05-06 22:36:58 UTC
Still no replies to these threads huh? I'm not buying the arguments of them being busy with fanfest anymore. If they're actually following the feedback like they say, they'd be able to post every now and then and throw us a ******* bone. It takes 60 seconds to make a post. Even if they don't wanna stir the pot, a politically correct post not giving out too much info but letting us know they're working on it would be better than this ******* wall of silence.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#2454 - 2013-05-06 23:01:19 UTC
Don't you know? Silent ignore is the best way to tell someone to **** off?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2455 - 2013-05-06 23:04:36 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

they wont change the domi, because they want the AMARR to have the vamp/neut/missile+lasers/drone boat.


What is silly that Typhoon was just stripped out of multi spec because they wanted to drop training time for it and now we have old Typhoon as Amarr. Its like they just moved the issue to another race and be happy with it. Go go Winnies win the day!
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2456 - 2013-05-06 23:05:46 UTC
Drunken Bum wrote:
Still no replies to these threads huh? I'm not buying the arguments of them being busy with fanfest anymore. If they're actually following the feedback like they say, they'd be able to post every now and then and throw us a ******* bone. It takes 60 seconds to make a post. Even if they don't wanna stir the pot, a politically correct post not giving out too much info but letting us know they're working on it would be better than this ******* wall of silence.

they've already responded with their final word, "amarr ships are in the best possible place we can see them for odyssey".

which means we will be seeig no more revisions to the amarr ship until post-odyssey release, adn even then, it will only be extremely minor tweaks, as CP likes amarr how theya re, unable to fire their guns with a weakened tank (no 8th lowslots) and a midrack full of cap batteries to stay in the fight long enough to actually die.

seeing as it is, a single neuting ship can immediately shutdown a group of amarr ships now, whereas any other race would at elast be able to continue the engagement, our tank has been weakened having no more 8-lowslot ships, and because of the amount of cap batteries were going to be shoving in our mids, were going to need non-amarr ships in fleet just to have tackle.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2457 - 2013-05-06 23:09:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
kcab wrote:

For me, the 'Geddon always was more like a Tempeste (attack BS).
If CCP is going to change it, Amarr won't have a BS in this role.


Amarr should have slow ship like Abaddon but we also need at least one bit faster ship. And yes Geddon had fitted that role perfectly. Apocalypse is just hull that overlaps with Oracle as sniper platform and Oracle does it way better anyway at least if you look for alpha.

Anyways rest in peace BSes go go ABCs and NBCs and winnies!!
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2458 - 2013-05-07 00:35:11 UTC
21 likes on the OP and 123 pages of overwhelmingly negative feedback and no meaningful response from CCP, great job CCP Rise.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#2459 - 2013-05-07 02:36:18 UTC
geddon , as good as it was originally (and with no need of a change) is going to be a good pvp ship after the summer as well.

If you ask me though, the one with drones and neuts should've been the navy geddon (similar to navy scorp which has a completely different role, than the non navy version) .

Oh and BTW, saying there are no tiers, and raising the price of all BS, doesn't magically make it so. Geddon will always be a tier 1 ship for me, now that it's an odd duck it will be a tier 1 even more so.

And BTW is it me or do all amarr ships now need a cap injector just to shoot their guns???
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2460 - 2013-05-07 02:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Avald Midular
Bigg Gun wrote:
geddon , as good as it was originally (and with no need of a change) is going to be a good pvp ship after the summer as well.

If you ask me though, the one with drones and neuts should've been the navy geddon (similar to navy scorp which has a completely different role, than the non navy version) .

Oh and BTW, saying there are no tiers, and raising the price of all BS, doesn't magically make it so. Geddon will always be a tier 1 ship for me, now that it's an odd duck it will be a tier 1 even more so.

And BTW is it me or do all amarr ships now need a cap injector just to shoot their guns???


We've noticed that for about 100 pages now, every amarr fit just gives up a mid by default in every usable fit, if you're beam fit then it's 2-3 rigs too. The tweaks in the Lg Energy Wpn thread won't change any of that, that's been our point. But it's fine according to detractors in this thread, beams are the most OP gun nobody uses and change to that will be imbalanced. Mega-Beams cap = Tach cap draw, yep everything is great keep it the same.