These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Velix Tessier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1001 - 2013-05-04 03:07:41 UTC
So since we're gonna be paying more for our battleships now, can we have our bigger drone bay back on the Typhoon?
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1002 - 2013-05-04 16:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Tempest: A 200mill slow battlecruiser with 2x heavy neuts...


LOL, Nope.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1003 - 2013-05-05 04:49:19 UTC
The combination of these rebalance efforts and the large rise in battleship build prices will cause fewer people to fly the things, especially terrible under performers like the Tempest and Raven. Maybe this is CCP's intention. What?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#1004 - 2013-05-05 12:00:02 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
The combination of these rebalance efforts and the large rise in battleship build prices will cause fewer people to fly the things, especially terrible under performers like the Tempest and Raven. Maybe this is CCP's intention. What?


I'm not sure about the Raven, but CCP Rise has pretty much indicated that the Tempest will be receiving further buffs, so people need to chill and wait to see what he comes up with next.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#1005 - 2013-05-05 13:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bigg Gun
he also indicated that he'll look at feedback but it's been weeks since the last changes... I think this is pretty much "it"

Also Yay for phoon - "the better raven" mwahahaha
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1006 - 2013-05-05 19:37:20 UTC
Heh, this thread has dropped to 4 posts a day. At least Rise made a change to the Apoc this weekend.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#1007 - 2013-05-05 19:56:34 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Heh, this thread has dropped to 4 posts a day. At least Rise made a change to the Apoc this weekend.


What change?
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1008 - 2013-05-05 20:18:54 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Heh, this thread has dropped to 4 posts a day. At least Rise made a change to the Apoc this weekend.


What change?

My bad, CCP Rises last actual comment was on the 24th a couple of weeks ago.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1009 - 2013-05-05 20:29:20 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Avald Midular wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Heh, this thread has dropped to 4 posts a day. At least Rise made a change to the Apoc this weekend.


What change?

My bad, CCP Rises last actual comment was on the 24th a couple of weeks ago.

Cause he is working his assoff to implement the best balance/fix there is possible
You will see it when expansion will be out and everybody will say "These changes are so awesome,I cant believe how they did this so great,Im so happy right now. I want to fly the every one these battleships,lets go to jita and buy a pair from each."

or not:D
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1010 - 2013-05-06 18:50:21 UTC
Another day, no more feedback. And this thread has died a death. The dead horse thoroughly beaten?

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1011 - 2013-05-06 18:56:30 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Another day, no more feedback. And this thread has died a death. The dead horse thoroughly beaten?


a few more kicks should be possible...
however, there isn't much more to say. all relevant arguments have been brought at least three times.

Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#1012 - 2013-05-06 19:03:51 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Another day, no more feedback. And this thread has died a death. The dead horse thoroughly beaten?


Well it seems dead now but perhaps once the BB changes are on SiSi, CCP will come looking for feedback on how they perform there. But for now I am not expecting them to say much of anything till then.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1013 - 2013-05-06 19:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Let's some this up:
Typhoon: I'm happy with it, some aren't - mostly to do with the mix of drones and missiles. May be better with missiles than the Raven - but to be honest, that's the Raven's problem.

Maelstrom: :S Good enough for now...

Tempest: Blaugh

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1014 - 2013-05-07 04:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Tempest need some love it need

+ 1 gun or

- 1 high + 1 med or low or

- 5% dmg + 10%/7.5 % rof + Tracking

It need something SOMETHING to keep it a float ..

This here is rifter happening all over again and chunk in te Nerf and pest gonna be deja vu scenario

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Justitia McKingston
#1015 - 2013-05-07 09:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Justitia McKingston
Quote:

Tempest
...
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+46) / 7300(+1089) / 6800(+259)


correct me if im wrong but dosent have the Tempest about 6990 Armor points at this moment? So the Increase is not ~1000 but about 300 instead?

Edit: ans same applies to shield?
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1016 - 2013-05-07 09:56:23 UTC
Justitia McKingston wrote:
Quote:

Tempest
...
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+46) / 7300(+1089) / 6800(+259)


correct me if im wrong but dosent have the Tempest about 6990 Armor points at this moment? So the Increase is not ~1000 but about 300 instead?

Edit: ans same applies to shield?


You are correct.

current values:

6211 / 6954 / 6641

New Values:

7000(+789) / 7300(+346) / 6800(+159)

Apparently they used wrong database (Again)
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#1017 - 2013-05-07 11:27:51 UTC
Anything new about this Tempest dear CCP Rise?
(For god sake add it a 6th medslot it needs it!)
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1018 - 2013-05-07 11:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
I think many people misunderstood my concerns with the tempest. The ship is not useless, it just lacks anything worth flying it besides dualneuts.. which only shine cause it's the only non-crp you can put in there. However, those two non-crp slots are tking awy from potential fitting tht would be needed to justify using a tempest for even a single role it might slip into.

I don't see any reason to give it six mids just like that. 8.5% RoF bonus is just odd and ugly, a fixed tempest needing 8.5% RoF would be a huge questionmark.

Instead of reiterating in your minds of the idea that tempest is a ship filling a non-viable niche (the XL-bttlecruiser one), should go back and look for niches to be filled. And there are two for minmatar! First would be a armortanked gunboat (Fleet issue), second would be either superrupture (tracking bonus) or a proper minimach (6 highslots, weak boni -- so make it FAST at least, not 'as fast as ships that have fast as secondary attribute', but minmatar-fast. Pirateships are said to be plain better, why can't the tempest be an actual predecessor to the mach, with weaker firepower/agility/velocity/lockrange/tank/senors/dronebay.


Tl;dr: Gimping it's stats, tuning down the massive sigbloom first intended and finally just drop it into the attack bs category, stating 'was **** before, look is now equally **** afterwards' is just not going to cut it. (Tempest isn't **** at all, just the other battleships are better right now... so how do you see the tempest faring unchanged against the new BS-meta?)

In all scenarios: Forgive me for doubting the efficiency of snakeimplanted pirateclones with loki/tengulinks making a tempest go 2km/s non-OH and wtf-kiting all of lowsec, let's ignore that point as it is largely irrelevant to the common use of battleships. Also, Kiting-Nega is just as fast....

Edit: In an ever-evolving meta, being stagnant is the fastest way to lose ground, and it happened already (rifter, aka 'thank god, could've been a slasher')
Altimo
Kitchen Sink Kapitals
#1019 - 2013-05-07 14:08:39 UTC
I'm kind of disappointed in the tempest myself, for odyssey I find it strange that we have 2 attack battleships as minmatar, now here is why, The tempest is basically a hurricane with large guns, 5 medium slots and 6 lows does not make for a good shield tank or armor tank. So trying to tank in pvp is probably not a good idea, you may want to snipe with it. However a tornado can fill that role and do a better job at it, and it's also cheaper.

I was curious to see what might be done with the tempest due to the fact the tornado pretty much wipes the floor with it as an alpha strike, you could also use a maelstrom, might as well since they could be almost the same price post-odyssey.
If I wanted to use the tempest as a close range ship, then I'm better off with the typhoon or a maelstrom, or a battlecruiser.

As the previous poster above has stated, the only thing its got going for it is the two neuts. I can't configure 8 guns If I wanted to, but an Apoc can, and a Mega can have 7 turrets. I can't help but feel a bit shafted since this ship is still mediocre for a battleship. For all the winmater whining in these forums, this is the one ship I don't consider "Winmatar" This ship needs a more defined role, not just a bigger hurricane, or another attack battleship.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1020 - 2013-05-07 14:31:10 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
A good post.


Current "rifter" progression line is:

Rifter -> ... -> Rupture -> Cane -> Pest (Nope thrasher belongs to another line IMO)

All can be armor or shield tanked
All have utility slot
All but rifter have double damage bonus and lower amount of turrets than counter parts (I admit it is hard to do it on rifter)
All have quite decent speed
....
All have fallen out of favor after tiercide....and it is pests turn.

The issue is their shield setups were actually too good compared to other hulls. Now that other ships have caught up and passed them they are being slowly abandoned for newer tactics. I find this completely normal. We'll need to adapt.

Though adaptation this time will be harder as the TE's are nerfed too.

As for pest I may get flamed for this but....I don't want to abandon the dual damage bonus. It provides decent alpha and decent dps this way. ROF only bonus would get rid of alpha, which is one of the selling qualities of Tempest.

In fact, what I would like to have on pest is some more PG to easier utilize this quality.