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Upgrading your free noob ship
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#1 - 2013-05-04 13:43:02 UTC
The noob ship, the first thing we spawned in when we began playing, and what we are handed when we dock or load a station with no ships we are able to pilot.

What if we considered that noob ship the way we considered our base medical clone, the free alpha one, and allowed purchasable single use upgrades in the same way?

Each race could have a purchasable menu to offer you, and you could have this ship and it's pre-canned modules fitted the next time instead of your base noob ship.

Just buy the right One time ship upgrade the same way you do on your med clone.

Use your initiative and proactive planning to get back into the fight faster.

Note: these should never be more cost effective than buying the ship and modules at a trade hub, and I would also suggest only T1 options be available.
That being said, you should be able to pick any T1 hull up to battleship in size, with any pre-canned module fitting loadout from stereo-typed play styles.
(No customization here, if you buy a caldari hauler package you get the corresponding badger with modules already fitted. I would stay away from rigs being included on this)

Like med clones, this can become expensive, and as already stated, should never be the most cost effective path to actually get a ship you want to fly.
But it could be the most time effective, especially in operations where getting back into the action faster means everything to a player who went to the trouble of trying planning ahead for unexpected events.

It just adds a new way to plan ahead.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2 - 2013-05-04 14:00:21 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
The noob ship, the first thing we spawned in when we began playing, and what we are handed when we dock or load a station with no ships we are able to pilot.

What if we considered that noob ship the way we considered our base medical clone, the free alpha one, and allowed purchasable single use upgrades in the same way?

Each race could have a purchasable menu to offer you, and you could have this ship and it's pre-canned modules fitted the next time instead of your base noob ship.

Just buy the right One time ship upgrade the same way you do on your med clone.

Use your initiative and proactive planning to get back into the fight faster.

Note: these should never be more cost effective than buying the ship and modules at a trade hub, and I would also suggest only T1 options be available.
That being said, you should be able to pick any T1 hull up to battleship in size, with any pre-canned module fitting loadout from stereo-typed play styles.
(No customization here, if you buy a caldari hauler package you get the corresponding badger with modules already fitted. I would stay away from rigs being included on this)

Like med clones, this can become expensive, and as already stated, should never be the most cost effective path to actually get a ship you want to fly.
But it could be the most time effective, especially in operations where getting back into the action faster means everything to a player who went to the trouble of trying planning ahead for unexpected events.

It just adds a new way to plan ahead.


This idea is terrible, and you should feel bad.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-05-04 20:08:13 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:

This idea is terrible, and you should feel bad.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2013-05-04 20:15:53 UTC
Adorable responses, not pointing out a single piece of logic or reason.
This means you do not like it, but you cannot actually find fault with it as a game play mechanic.

You would not be forced to use it, so don't despair.

As to people able to find value with it, it would have purpose.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#5 - 2013-05-04 21:15:05 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Adorable responses, not pointing out a single piece of logic or reason.
This means you do not like it, but you cannot actually find fault with it as a game play mechanic.

You would not be forced to use it, so don't despair.

As to people able to find value with it, it would have purpose.

Perhaps it's just so obviously bad they shouldn't have to point it out?

Still, you might honestly think this would have a purpose... so just to make sure:
No, it's a terrible idea.

Here's why:
It spawns stuff from NPCs that is better left to player interaction (Furthermore, has no regard for minerals/industry/trade).
It doesn't take into account logistics (Would the price in Feythabolis be the same as Providence or Syndicate, given same truesec?).
It would make planning ahead worth less compared to pure ISK investment (Maybe even actually worthless - "oh, we welped 150 battleships? no problem, you all just undock in your mandatory pre-canned battleship to fight again...").
With the number of different fits for the same ship, it probably won't even be usable (If I interpret your "package" correct).

There are probably more reasons than those (They're just the far most obvious), so when you didn't even manage to realise those deathblows to your idea, it speaks poorly about your idea-making skills.

When you suggest a new fix/feature, try running it through this list:
1. Is there a problem/need that this fix/feature would help with/cater to?
2. Are there any obvious problems that might arise from the proposed fix/feature?
3. With the changes, would the fix/feature be worth any eventual new problems, and would the proposed solution be the best bang/buck ratio available?
4. Would the fix/feature conceivably influence other areas, and if yes; how and to what degree?

If you, as proposer of the idea, won't at least ask yourself these questions and answer them in your post, then I have no reason to take your idea seriously.
You obviously don't take it serious yourself.

Cool
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-04 21:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I don't like the idea of tech 1 modules being purchaseable from NPCs with ISK. Howabout this idea instead:

Every station would have a rookie ship shop in which you could purchase rookie ships of any race, and civilian or basic modules to put on them. These would of course be very cheap, but could be bought with only ISK and in unlimited quantities in absolutely any station. The basic modules should cost more like what you'd pay for tech 1 or low meta modules at a trade hub, maybe more even, just for the availability. The civilian modules, on the other hand, should be very very cheap, down in the 3-5 digits range.

I'd also like to see more civilian modules become available and have their usefulness balanced to be significant, so that brand new players could immediately start playing with ship fittings instead of waiting an hour to be able to fit hardeners, or whatever. So the civilian afterburner should offer a speed boost of at least 35%. What it gives is barely noticeable. And lastly, all of these things should not be reprocessable.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-05-04 22:04:34 UTC
The one thing I have to point out about the original idea that others haven't is that - if players are willing to put up with the lower quality of the canned fits - it enables a sufficiently numerous and determined group of dudes to saddle up shuttles, eject from ship at zero meters to station, and suddenly have a giant blobby fleet of in any system with a station they are able to dock up in. They could do this without flying anything more expensive than a shuttle through the intervening systems, and they could do this at speeds that said fleet would not be able to achieve if it were limited to the warp speed of the ships the pilots actually flew into combat.

At least, that's what I'm getting from the way that the current mechanics cough up a noobship whenever you dock in a pod, regardless of how many ships you've lost in the recent past (or, indeed, how many ships you've lost *ever*).
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2013-05-04 22:28:04 UTC
If you had been more logical, and demonstrated better understanding of the original idea beyond the first two lines and assumptions about the rest, what follows might have seemed less harsh.

Alphea Abbra wrote:
Perhaps it's just so obviously bad they shouldn't have to point it out?
An opinion, no matter how often repeated, will never convert into a fact.

Still, you might honestly think this would have a purpose... so just to make sure:
No, it's a terrible idea.

Here's why:
It spawns stuff from NPCs that is better left to player interaction (Furthermore, has no regard for minerals/industry/trade).
If you had read more carefully, you would have seen that you are purchasing a single T1 hull with T1 modules. No rigs even.
By your logic, everything in the game not player made is also spawned from NPC's and is undesirable as well.

It doesn't take into account logistics (Would the price in Feythabolis be the same as Providence or Syndicate, given same truesec?).
By your logic, anything not defined specifically must be flawed as well, it seems.
As originally stated: "these should never be more cost effective than buying the ship and modules at a trade hub"
Why would you assume the likely cost to transport these would be omitted from consideration?
The same way insurance is handled versus the actual cost to re-purchase and import replacement ships should be a starting point, and add in a convenience charge on top of that.
Put simply, this would be a significant ISK sink.

It would make planning ahead worth less compared to pure ISK investment (Maybe even actually worthless - "oh, we welped 150 battleships? no problem, you all just undock in your mandatory pre-canned battleship to fight again...").
This is an upgrade to a noob ship, not something any fleet is likely to ever show an interest in actually wanting.

With the number of different fits for the same ship, it probably won't even be usable (If I interpret your "package" correct).
With your previous point, you had this as a desirable fleet replacement source. Now you are suggesting it is worthless for this purpose.
Again, this is intended to be simply more useful than the noob ship, and only expected to be used in circumstances that could not be properly planned for otherwise. If people are desperate to throw away ISK, we already have many reported volunteers in Jita willing to help them.
This is a cost ineffective last resort to be able to play beyond an event that would otherwise end a play session prematurely.

There are probably more reasons than those (They're just the far most obvious), so when you didn't even manage to realise those deathblows to your idea, it speaks poorly about your idea-making skills.
Your reading comprehension and desire to bash my post, actually. Not my fault that your assumed points against it have no basis in logic.

When you suggest a new fix/feature, try running it through this list:
1. Is there a problem/need that this fix/feature would help with/cater to?
Yes indeed. Showing up in your med clone, or far from any of your other ships when you have no worthwhile means of playing with your noob ship as your only option. Your game is effectively over for that session.
Remember, this is for those occasions you could not plan for, or it is cost effective to store the ship beforehand every time.

2. Are there any obvious problems that might arise from the proposed fix/feature?
This is more like a cost intensive version of insurance, which gives a low cost ship for a premium price rather than a down payment on replacing the lost vessel. I am sure the insurance system has complaints for much the same reason.

3. With the changes, would the fix/feature be worth any eventual new problems, and would the proposed solution be the best bang/buck ratio available?
What value is play time? This is a last ditch effort to recover play time at risk to limited resources far from a players home system.
Not ideal, nor intended to be, it can however salvage time in a play session that could be lost due to unavoidable circumstances in game.

4. Would the fix/feature conceivably influence other areas, and if yes; how and to what degree?
No. If a player had the option to foresee a need to store a ship locally, it would always be the better option. It could result in more PvP to the degree that a noob ship would be rejected by comparison. PvE players are still possible users, but in my experience tend to operate much closer to home where useful ships can be obtained.

If you, as proposer of the idea, won't at least ask yourself these questions and answer them in your post, then I have no reason to take your idea seriously.
You obviously don't take it serious yourself.


Cool

Try not to be upset by my reply, it was not personal in nature, but your post indicated a base lack of understanding I could not condone with silence.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#9 - 2013-05-04 22:32:49 UTC
Weasel Leblanc wrote:
The one thing I have to point out about the original idea that others haven't is that - if players are willing to put up with the lower quality of the canned fits - it enables a sufficiently numerous and determined group of dudes to saddle up shuttles, eject from ship at zero meters to station, and suddenly have a giant blobby fleet of in any system with a station they are able to dock up in. They could do this without flying anything more expensive than a shuttle through the intervening systems, and they could do this at speeds that said fleet would not be able to achieve if it were limited to the warp speed of the ships the pilots actually flew into combat.

At least, that's what I'm getting from the way that the current mechanics cough up a noobship whenever you dock in a pod, regardless of how many ships you've lost in the recent past (or, indeed, how many ships you've lost *ever*).

Noone would want a scrub fleet like this.

As a last resort option above not being able to play with just the base noob ship, that is all this idea is pushing for.
We are already given the noob ship for free, automatically.

But sometimes, that fails to meet play needs, and the game is better when played.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2013-05-04 22:36:19 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I don't like the idea of tech 1 modules being purchaseable from NPCs with ISK. Howabout this idea instead:

Every station would have a rookie ship shop in which you could purchase rookie ships of any race, and civilian or basic modules to put on them. These would of course be very cheap, but could be bought with only ISK and in unlimited quantities in absolutely any station. The basic modules should cost more like what you'd pay for tech 1 or low meta modules at a trade hub, maybe more even, just for the availability. The civilian modules, on the other hand, should be very very cheap, down in the 3-5 digits range.

I'd also like to see more civilian modules become available and have their usefulness balanced to be significant, so that brand new players could immediately start playing with ship fittings instead of waiting an hour to be able to fit hardeners, or whatever. So the civilian afterburner should offer a speed boost of at least 35%. What it gives is barely noticeable. And lastly, all of these things should not be reprocessable.

This is effectively the same idea repackaged, and limits specified as to module usefulness.
It meets the need as a viable alternative. Good thinking.

Keep in mind, the ship needs to be attractive enough to use above the noobship, enough so that a player chooses to stay online and use it.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...