Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That setup runs as long as you have navy cap booster 400's (which lasts around 11 minute considering a full cargobay and no cap transfer from other capitals/guadians.)

Tachs are doing around 10% more damage then nearest LR weapon (which is mega beam). Using 8 megabeams also brings cap issues. By using 7 tachs you ease up the powergrid and cap transfer helps to run them longer. It also has very good EHP.

Alternatively you can go megabeams and use a t2 cap usage rig. You get good damage, less cap problem but sacrifice EHP

Or you can go full tach use a single pg rig to deal very high damage but sacrifice EHP and have cap issues.

It is always a trade off. If you can fit a full rack of tachs, get a great EHP and have low cap issues, then there is nothing to tradeoff.

Still...I believe the cap issue problems lie with the guns and modules not the ships. A solution would be making heatsinks bonus a bundled 20% to damage. Absence of RoF bonus would result in a more decent cap life. Although it would result in slighly (less then %1) reduction in dps, the alpha factor more than makes up for it.

I like this suggestion about heatsinks.

I certainly wouldn't mind giving up 1% of my DPS to reduce the inherent cap draw increase to the mod.

How about you talk about Minmatar stuff in their own thread?

Why do the Gallente and Winmatar guys constantly keep bringing up external non-factors into an internal balance discussion?

"Waah, New Geddon steps on the toes of the Domi!"

"Tachyons can't be viable...because, because railguns!"

And so on.

Stop. Knock it off.

Entirely beside the point. ("then why are there racial threads in the first place?" comes to mind)

What I said has nothing to do with overall game balance. It has to do with people trying to derail the thread, because short sighted, small minded polarized thinking seems to think that if you raise up underpowered weaponry that somehow everyone else suffers as a result. It's same bulls*** mindset with the "highsec vs nullsec" people. It's stupid.

Saying that a rework of heat sinks entails a vastly overpowered change to gyrostabs is entirely unwarranted trolling. Off topic at that.

He can go whine about Minmatar in the Minmatar thread, and about Gallente in the Gallente thread. What is unreasonable about that?

Yeah, aside from the fact that the poster knows full well that the idea being floated was not an overall buff to dps.

a 25% RoF on the other hand, is a hell of a dps buff. It also entirely destroys any balance autocannons have at frigate and cruiser level. So he was trolling, pure and simple.

So, let me ask you a question.

What a lot of people are asking for in this thread (myself included) is not dps buffs, or EHP increases, etc.

They are asking for quality of life improvements, cap and fitting to be precise.

Why do all of you guys come in here and talk about us wanting to ruin (or at the very least disregarding) overall game balance then? How on earth is being able to fire more than 70 shots with an Apocalypse going to destroy game balance?

Inserting things that were never said? And then you go to tell me that everyone (or for that matter anyone) in this thread have suggested that Tachs should be fit as easily as 425s? Which is an outright lie. Everyone in these two threads has simply said that disgustingly large increase in power isn't worth a few points of CPU. Which is true from every standpoint. [Edit: Who? Who said they should be at the same level as 425s? Bet you can't find it. If you want to challenge me to dig through this threadnaught, go ahead and do it yourself.

Furthermore, plenty of people have tried to say (tried, because it's bulls*** and everyone knows it) that cap use is somehow a legitimate feature of lasers, some kind of balancing point. Just look up pretty much half of what Bouh has ever posted on here.

Also, if you can't be bothered to go back half a page, sure, here you go.



Rate of fire is worth about 6.5% dps compared to a 5% damage.

Lemme see... 5*4 = 20. 6.5*4 = *drumroll* 24.5! Holy S*** Batman! So a 20% increase in RoF would be about a 25% increase in DPS. Huh, funny how that worked out.

The fact remains that altering heat sinks to be entirely damage, is quite different from the troll post of asking for gyros to be entirely rate of fire. Especially given that.

One is an honest suggestion from someone trying to provide a solution to the issue of overly large cap use. The other is attempting to derail the suggestion purely for the sake of being argumentative. You even bold the word balanced, but it's not mentioned one iota in that troll post. Don't make up lies to prove a point.

Furthermore I notice you did not even attempt to answer any question I put to you. You are just here, as I stated of other earlier, to regurgitate the talking points of the railgun whiners.

I ask you again, and for the last time, what is the problem with asking for a quality of life improvement? And how does having one currently unusable weapon system being viable for once somehow threaten your own weapon system? Because I already told you that you were lying about saying anyone has asked for Tachs to be as easy to fit as 425s.

I'm skepticle that you can stay cap stable or cap-non-problematic with just cap booster 400's so if you can provide some napkin math on that please.

Either way, I don't think Amarr cap longevity while firing should be balanced around how many cap 400's you can fit in your hold, that signals a broken system to me.

I'm all for tradeoff's while fitting, as long as ALL races have to make those tradeoffs. As it is with the new ships, Amarr have to make a lot more tradeoffs especially for non-fleet or low-SP fits and I don't see that with the other races BS lineup. Amarr are shoehorned into fitting Scorch and buffer tanking and have to give up a lot of modules/rigs to do otherwise while no other race has to. The Gallente got their ships changed away from 8 turret setups which helped their situation after about 2 hours on the forum, and we're asking for a similar consideration of the Amarr lineup.

Actually, the king has the lowest dps of all platforms, as well as substantially shorter range than rails, and being a bit harder to fit than mega beams- but fundamentally fit-able on both of the Minmatar ships. So the reason people don't want to bring up the king is that regardless of how Tachs are changed, they won't overshadow 1400mm, and it makes the 425 Rail side weaker- rails are the easiest weapons to fit, combined with the longest range of the weapons. Yes Tachyons can reach pretty damn far too, but a Rokh vs Apoc, the Rokh will have substantially more range unless fitted with blasters.

Tradeoffs ? Like very bad tracking (for LR weapons), long reload (= ammo swap) and no dps at shorter ranges ?

Oh ! I forgot : only cap and fitting are relevant drawbacks to amarr pilots, because they only see what they don't have compared to the others and completely ignore all their advantages.

For example, other races just don't shoot at long range with close range weapons, or at close range with LR weapons. Or they don't swap ammo, just because they can't.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Now, if you want to discuss the actual advantages beams have, now we will be able to talk : yes high tracking and short range dps of beams sucks because pulse already do that. That's why you want your weapons to be more like railguns. That's the origin of all the amarr cries. The problem is that all the proposed "solutions" will bring are caldari+gallente cries about their railguns being terrible compare to low cap/fitting beams.

A balancing solution should not bring more cries and imbalances.

When you stop mis-characterizing our argument, people will respond to you with something other than a block. Not one person has said they should have low cap/fitting, just something in the canyon sized gulf between double the PG and triple the cap cost.