Player Features and Ideas Discussion

i quote my self here:

Edit - Post edited with recalculated values.

As promised earlier, after a bit of tweaking and playing around with some numbers I've come up with a pretty solid way forward possibly with the Tempest.

Tempest:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+8.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6900 (-100) / 6900 (-400) / 6500 (-300)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 (+10) / .11 (-0.1) / 101050000 / ??
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 350 (-10)[/quote]

Seeing as tiers have now been removed completely from the game, why exactly should the Mael, which is much stronger EHP wise, also be able out damage the Tempest, therefore always leaving the Tempest in a poor second place. I think this paradigm is the possible cause of the Tempests current issue.

By combining bonuses and giving a 12.5 rate of fire bonus instead this is what you are looking at in terms of sustained dps when looking at projectiles taking 100% as the max.

Mael - 100%
Tornado - 100%
Tempest - 98%

So the sustained Dps of the Tempest is just below that of the Tornado and Mael. Then when you take into account the two utilities you will be doing more sustained dps over a period of time.

Now looking at alpha damage this is how it looks with again 100% as the max.

Mael - 100%
Tornado - 100%
Tempest - 75%

So clear roles are evident here now. If you want sustained dps with a mobile hull then the Tempest is now looking very attractive. If you want alpha then you want to go for the mael or the tornado.

Now the falloff bonus is included as the Tempest is an attack BS, and so kiting will be the predominant tactic, this bonus fits that role perfectly with either autos or artillery.

With a proposal along these lines you are getting clear roles for each BS. I haven't calulated where the Typhoon fits in here, but I assume it is putting out even more dps due to its relatively weaker hull as it quite rightly should do. And obviously being a missile ship there is little overlap between the projectile firing Tempest.

If any further nerfs are needed then I would drop EHP further if deemed necessary, although a modicum of EHP will be required as it is intended to kite so will still be sustaining damage despite being able to perhaps mitigate some. But perhaps with this level of dps some reduction may be needed to offset the damage.

But in essence what you will have is a very clear roles.

If you want mobile projectile based dps, then you would choose the Tempest.
If you want sniping, then you go for the Tornado.
If you want fleet ship with heavy tank, good sustained dps and alpha, but a slow hull to compensate, then you have the Mael.
If you want mobile missile based dps, then you go for the Typhoon.

Pro tip, learn how ROF bonuses are applied before posting garbage with your alt.

And the tempest can apply damage and maintain distance from well beyond neutron/null

DUUUDE!! That is equivalent to 16 turrets of DPS!! That thing outdps a Vindicator.. anhd that while not even using damage mods!

Cut that to 10% rof per level and the result is something that can be argued about... Its less horrible than current tempest? Maybe? had a role and a place in current metagame?

NO! Its trying to do exaclty what the tornado is made to do.. and its inferior to the tornado on that role..... the result.. gets obvious.

If you haven't noticed, the mega has 7 turrets and is losing the utility, that eft battle wasn't a good example since with the changes the ships aren't meant to be fit the same, as for long range, why would a snipee pest even need a heavy neut? It's going to be far outside it's effective range. And there isn't even a single gyro on the pest though you stack two on the mega, how do they stack when the mega is using, tes to try to match the pest's range.

I have noticed, I'm pointing out that EVEN THOUGH THE MEGATHRON HAS NO *UTILITY HIGH SLOTS* it has more than competitive DPS even doing what the "new" tempest does, with a comparative tank.

I mean, you asked to compare apples to apples?

I have noticed, I'm pointing out that EVEN THOUGH THE MEGATHRON HAS NO *UTILITY HIGH SLOTS* it has more than competitive DPS even doing what the "new" tempest does, with a comparative tank.

I mean, you asked to compare apples to apples?[/quote]
So you admit that in neut range the mega is out classed because of the similar dps and tank of the temp with the neut?

EDIT - As pointed out I applied the incorrect damage bonus. My mistake so apologies for that, had a momentary lapse and miscalculated. Post has now been updated with the appropriate rate of fire bonus. Hope this one is a little better. :)

As promised earlier, after a bit of tweaking and playing around with some numbers I've come up with a pretty solid way forward possibly with the Tempest.

Tempest:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+8.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6900 (-100) / 6900 (-400) / 6800
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 (+10) / .11 (-0.1) / 101050000 / ??
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 350 (-10)[/quote]

Seeing as tiers have now been removed completely from the game, why exactly should the Mael, which is much stronger EHP wise, also be able out damage the Tempest, therefore always leaving the Tempest in a poor second place. I think this paradigm is the possible cause of the Tempests current issue.

By combining bonuses and giving a 8.5% rate of fire bonus instead this is what you are looking at in terms of sustained dps when looking at projectiles taking 100% as the max.

Mael - 100%
Tornado - 100%
Tempest - 98%

So the sustained Dps of the Tempest is just below that of the Tornado and Mael. Then when you take into account the two utilities you will be doing more sustained dps over a period of time.

Now looking at alpha damage this is how it looks with again 100% as the max.

Mael - 100%
Tornado - 100%
Tempest - 75%

So clear roles are evident here now. If you want sustained dps with a mobile hull then the Tempest is now looking very attractive. If you want alpha then you want to go for the mael or the tornado.

Now the falloff bonus is included as the Tempest is an attack BS, and so kiting will be the predominant tactic, this bonus fits that role perfectly with either autos or artillery.

With a proposal along these lines you are getting clear roles for each BS. I haven't calulated where the Typhoon fits in here, but I assume it is putting out even more dps due to its relatively weaker hull as it quite rightly should do. And obviously being a missile ship there is little overlap between the projectile firing Tempest.

If any further nerfs are needed then I would drop EHP further if deemed necessary, although a modicum of EHP will be required as it is intended to kite so will still be sustaining damage despite being able to perhaps mitigate some. But perhaps with this level of dps some reduction may be needed to offset the damage.

But in essence what you will have is a very clear roles.

If you want mobile projectile based dps, then you would choose the Tempest.
If you want sniping, then you go for the Tornado.
If you want fleet ship with heavy tank, good sustained dps and alpha, but a slow hull to compensate, then you have the Mael.
If you want mobile missile based dps, then you go for the Typhoon.

Well the above proposal simply bring the Tempest into line with the other Minmatar ships. At the moment gallente is looking very good to me so I don't think the mega needs its drones back personally. The Tempest is probably the weakest minmatar BS right now as you can see, even with the rate of fire increase in the hull proposed above it is only just bringing into line with the rest.