Ships & Modules

First, let me say that I really enjoy this conversation, and I do hope that maybe by discussing various alternatives ("for" CCP) we can have some small effect on how the Phantasm 2.0 will turn out. But daydreaming can be nice, too... ;)



A 100%-covops role would perhaps be too radical (not that I'm against it), which is why I originally suggested a role close to blackops: Not being able to warp cloaked, but having the capability to move around cloaked on grid relatively fast (which would still make it a great WH platform). This would only be really nice combined with some other sort of trick like the mentioned MJD bonus. For example:

get in position -> decloak -> pounce (microjump) -> melt face -> microjump out -> cloak

Does seem very cool to me, but maybe it's just too out of the ordinary for CCP to implement such changes...



I totally agree about the Zealot/Nomen; those are also in the same ship class/size category.

As to your first option, I'd leave the damage to the role bonus like on other ships to enable pilots w/o maxed skills to apply maximum damage sooner; that's not a relevant point though. However, this alternative would have the same DPS output as the current Phantasm unless it gets another lowslot for an additional heat sink.

I also still think a 6-7 midslot shield laser boat of smaller size (!) would not necessarily collide too much with the Narbinger (5 mids).



Unless it gets a 7th midslot this would most definitely be a wasted bonus on a (solo) shield ship that wants to have a web. And personally, I don't like TDs. ;)



Yes, nice! It would still need the fourth lowslot for a third heatsink, in my opinion, as the three-magstab-Vigilant would out-damage it with Null in comparable ranges even then while being able to apply that damage better due to 90% webs and superior tracking.



The 100% cap use bonus would absolutely give them a really powerful twist, and on the Nightmare it might be perfect. I'm not sure it would be enough to make the Phantasm competitive... must look at numbers later.

...not at all opposed to the covops bonus even on the current Phantasm, indeed.

Cheers
Tilo R.

Been using a Phantasm fit with Large ASB, medium cap injector, 3x Arqebus beams, Fed 10mn AB, and passive shield hardeners since first seeing this thread, and it's been working fine in most L3's. Never had a gtfo moment, and only use the drones (Warrior IIs) for fast frigates that get in too close. Also have a Domination medium Proton SB fit for the Minnie NPCs, but haven't needed to use it yet. Fun little ship. It's definately not a go-to ship for L3's, but hey. It was fun playing with it. Love the damage bonuses for this cruiser class.

I don't think I'd ever use this for peeveepee because of it's cost vs benefit assessment; there are other ships that are cheaper that would work better for that job. I do have to add that I prefer the Ashimmu over the Phantasm because I can comfortably fit T2 lazors, while T2's on the Phantasm are a very tight fit (taking in. Just my $.02...

A cov-ops Phantasm would tingle a large number of my Happy Places.

Rattlesnake is not 'fine', it's utterly useless.
There's a good reason it's by FAR the cheapest pirate BS.

Even if you argue that it's good for PVE (which it really isnt, it's just easy for PVE), it virtually never sees PVP use.
All of the other pirate BSs are heavily PVP leaning, the Rattler should be too.
It needs to be brought back to close to what it used to be; a torp DPS boat, rather than the 'look at me, I have tank' ship that it is now.

They do pretty explosions http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17457429

It's no coincidence that the subpar pirate factions are the ones that have no special ability. Angel - mobility and damage projection; Raiders - neuts and webs; Serpentis - webs and DPS. Neither Sansha nor Guristas have any special feature that sets them apart from any other generic gank 'n' tank ship.

Covert ops cloaky Sansha may be a bit tricky to balance. But what would a Guristas special ability look like? No ECM, please... even super-strong ECM bursts would probably be a really bad idea in practice. Capless lasers for Sansha is an option, albeit a slightly dull one, but I just don't know what to do with Guristas to make them relevant.

I stumbled across this thread right after having a conversation with a friend of mine about how it doesn't make sense that Sansha ships to be designed (at least in terms of slot layout) to shield tank, when all defensive Sansha faction mods that drop are armor mods.

That is correct. Back in 2009 or so Ytterbium rebalanced the Sansha ships from their previously absolutely terrible state. A year or so later he rebalanced them all.

-Liang

Well, it's not just DPS improvement that makes Serps so popular and pretty powerful - their almost unique webbing bonus (IIRC only Paladin has similar bonus), which is used as both supplement for their ability to do damage and as a means to support dreds.
I wouldn't mind Guristas to become missile brawlers, but it would be much better for their ships (especilaly for Rattlesnake) if they will achieve their pirate-grade prowess by possessing similarly unique quirk. This way they could find some niche usage in smaller gangs, while (maybe) being somewhat viable for fleets (like Gila right now) or solo through suggested "brute force" abilities.

And really I don't think that ECM bonuses would even work well enough for them. If anything, we should leave EWar for possible future T2 BSs or something along those lines.

P.S. I hope my post is understandable - I really shouldn't post this late, but well...

The Rattlesnake needs to get a missile damage bonus while keeping its drone bonus imo. 4 unbonused launchers are pretty useless.