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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#761 - 2013-04-25 10:53:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gargantoi
Just to make it clear i ment typhoon should get a bonus like rapier not bhaalgorn i just typed wrong :) also that guy sugesting using electronic rigs + cap rigs and other **** like that on a pvp ship is still making my point that he needs to pvp and stop ratting ..all armor buff ships in pvp will use trimarks ..all shield buffed ships in pvp will use extender rigs thats how it is and thats how it will be ..u need EHP to survive long enough to either kill something or if you get droped by a blob / deagress jump/dock jumped etc...but i know ..fighting sleepers in wh clouded your judgement



http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Rebecha+Pucontis#losses

getting advices from 5 mil skp chars ...i know i know is an alt ..but if you wanna be listened post with your main not your alt

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Gargantoi&page=1#kills

at least i got the KB to back out my big mouth and also the SKP to fly all bs's in lvl 5 skills including gunnery so belive me bro i know what im talking about i flyed all sub cap ships in this game ..on tq in combat situations
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#762 - 2013-04-25 11:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Gargantoi wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Gargantoi wrote:
why not turn the bhaalgorn into a "larger" rapier give it 5% missile rof 7.5 % bonus to target paint / level that way or 7.5 reduction in exp radius / lvl


LOL..... You want the bhaal, a blood raider ship, to lose its nuet bonuses and be turned into a rapier....? o_o

Please biomass yourself right now.


Ment typhoon -_- that came out wrong ill make sure to fix it lulz ! also your WH living is diferent from actual pvp you fight npc ..while we fight players ..get my point ?


Lol. Ok good to hear you aren't totally crazy then. And anyway, that kind of backs up my point. You sound like the kind of leet Pvper who uses his BS's in massive logi and capital backed fleets. There are other things in Eve other than mindless gigantic fleet battles. I fight in small gang pvp in null sec, WH space, and low sec, and so I'm looking at this from this angle.

Tempest is looking very good to me, some extra agility and speed would be all it needs now in my view. Perhaps a falloff bonus and combine the damage bonus also to top it off. But no change to slot layout.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#763 - 2013-04-25 11:52:03 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
FYI, weapons rigs are just about the poorest type of rig you can use on any ship.


Nope, they definitely aren't.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#764 - 2013-04-25 11:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Quote:
Tempest is looking very good to me, some extra agility and speed would be all it needs now in my view. Perhaps a falloff bonus and combine the damage bonus also to top it off

So basically, a bigger Tornado?


/adds Rebecha Pucontis to the ignore list.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#765 - 2013-04-25 12:01:43 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Quote:
Tempest is looking very good to me, some extra agility and speed would be all it needs now in my view. Perhaps a falloff bonus and combine the damage bonus also to top it off

So basically, a bigger Tornado?


/adds Rebecha Pucontis to the ignore list.



Let me add on that.. a bigger.. less agile.. with LESS alpha and less damage and much higher price tornado?


The tempest can fill a role close to tornado.. but it must be MUCH more powerful on part of that role to be useful.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#766 - 2013-04-25 12:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You are starting to derail yourself completely. 1400mm benefits much LESS from falloff than AC> Arties get about 27% of the effect that AC get from same falloff bonus relative to their base effective damage projection. You are the one not using the brain to analyse properly


I'm not derailing myself, just pointing out your error, which you still are repeating here again. Falloff for artillery ships is around 80km, so with a 25% bonus your getting 100km falloff. Autocannon falloff is around half of that and so your getting only 10km extra falloff. Both autos and artillery users get benefits, but not sure how you work out falloff screams autocannons and Tier 3 BC cruiser should all be turned into autocannon boats.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#767 - 2013-04-25 12:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Quote:
Tempest is looking very good to me, some extra agility and speed would be all it needs now in my view. Perhaps a falloff bonus and combine the damage bonus also to top it off

So basically, a bigger Tornado?


Nope, not simply a bigger tornado. The tornado is still going to be the ship of choice for hit and run sniping due to agility and superior scan resolution. The Tempest should be able to kite from long range, but also has many other roles such as kiting with autos.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#768 - 2013-04-25 12:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The tempest can fill a role close to tornado.. but it must be MUCH more powerful on part of that role to be useful.

The Temepst is never going to fill the sniping role of the Tornado and I think this is the error which some of you have. Like I've pointed out many times in this thread, the Tempest will never compete in the attributes which matter. Ie, scan res, sig res, mass, agility, and overall speed and currently alpha damage. Trying to make the Tempest simply a better version of the Tornado is a fools errand. It needs its own useful roles, ie, kiting with autos and artillery.

Something like this would work well in the kiting role.

Tempest:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG, 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6900 (-100) / 6900 (-400) / 6500 (-300)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 (+10) / .11 (-0.1) / 101050000 / ??
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 350 (-10)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#769 - 2013-04-25 12:34:10 UTC
At end more and more I am covniced how bad idea the Attack BC were. They all need to loose 1 or 2 turrets.


Battleship can NEVER be balanced while those abnormalities exist.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#770 - 2013-04-25 12:39:09 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Gargantoi wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Gargantoi wrote:
why not turn the bhaalgorn into a "larger" rapier give it 5% missile rof 7.5 % bonus to target paint / level that way or 7.5 reduction in exp radius / lvl


LOL..... You want the bhaal, a blood raider ship, to lose its nuet bonuses and be turned into a rapier....? o_o

Please biomass yourself right now.


Ment typhoon -_- that came out wrong ill make sure to fix it lulz ! also your WH living is diferent from actual pvp you fight npc ..while we fight players ..get my point ?


Lol. Ok good to hear you aren't totally crazy then. And anyway, that kind of backs up my point. You sound like the kind of leet Pvper who uses his BS's in massive logi and capital backed fleets. There are other things in Eve other than mindless gigantic fleet battles. I fight in small gang pvp in null sec, WH space, and low sec, and so I'm looking at this from this angle.

Tempest is looking very good to me, some extra agility and speed would be all it needs now in my view. Perhaps a falloff bonus and combine the damage bonus also to top it off. But no change to slot layout.



killboard or it didnt happen and no i prefer smaller ships my self as u can see on my losses unfortunatlly u are still out of your league here u said u do wh stuff and use small stuff so why comment on bs if you dont use it ? simple as that ...last time i used pest was in 2010 was a gazilion time ago but it loved it i said **** it ..ima try it and barelly killed a drake and got out with 20% hull while having a slave set on me ...the ship lacks dps A LOT and i was fighting only a drake and a hurricane and again the bonus u sugested with faloff + rof ...is stupid ...u want a NANO bs with faloff i bring u the machariel ..fly it ..dont sugest turning the pest into one like ccp did with the mini bhaalgorn on the armageddon part
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#771 - 2013-04-25 12:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Gargantoi wrote:
killboard or it didnt happen and no i prefer smaller ships my self as u can see on my losses unfortunatlly u are still out of your league here u said u do wh stuff and use small stuff so why comment on bs if you dont use it ? simple as that ...last time i used pest was in 2010 was a gazilion time ago but it loved it i said **** it ..ima try it and barelly killed a drake and got out with 20% hull while having a slave set on me ...the ship lacks dps A LOT and i was fighting only a drake and a hurricane and again the bonus u sugested with faloff + rof ...is stupid ...u want a NANO bs with faloff i bring u the machariel ..fly it ..dont sugest turning the pest into one like ccp did with the mini bhaalgorn on the armageddon part

What exactly would you be against if the Tempest became a kiting ship? Would have a good damage output and ability to keep opponents at range. If you can keep at range with good damage and speed then you have got a really nice ship which was my original point and why I'd like to see a damage buff. It would pretty much be the perfect ship for small gangs.

Also I don't post with my main as I like to keep intel secure. I dont even post kills on the killboard, why give intel to your opponents if you don't have to.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#772 - 2013-04-25 12:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Gargantoi wrote:
..the ship lacks dps A LOT and i was fighting only a drake and a hurricane and again the bonus u sugested with faloff

A agree, I want the damage buffed further. I did suggest a 12.5% damage bonus originally but got flamed so went for a more conservative 10% on the proposal above. Ideally I think the Tempest would need 12.5% rate of fire bonus though. You can drop the falloff and it will still work because the dps is what really needs to be buffed on the ship, although falloff is a nice addition for a kiting ship.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#773 - 2013-04-25 13:37:31 UTC
Watching CCP Rise at Fanfest is promising! Tempest being expanded in its role as an overgrown battlecruiser, so pretty much the big brother to the hurricane like I was suggesting! \o/ Hopefully some more buffs on the horizon too. DPS please. :)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#774 - 2013-04-25 13:52:00 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Watching CCP Rise at Fanfest is promising! Tempest being expanded in its role as an overgrown battlecruiser, so pretty much the big brother to the hurricane like I was suggesting! \o/ Hopefully some more buffs on the horizon too. DPS please. :)



did he presented anything on stream? I am at work :(

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#775 - 2013-04-25 13:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Watching CCP Rise at Fanfest is promising! Tempest being expanded in its role as an overgrown battlecruiser, so pretty much the big brother to the hurricane like I was suggesting! \o/ Hopefully some more buffs on the horizon too. DPS please. :)



did he presented anything on stream? I am at work :(


Yes, they had a decent presentation regarding the changes. CCP Rise spent about ten minutes explaining the BS changes. It sounds as though he is pretty happy with the Typhoon, was very happy with the extra mid giving more versatility, although maybe it will be a little too powerful. Hopefully he is still open to some tweaks in the drone department though. Regarding the Tempest he said they wanted it pretty much as an overgrown BC with lots of versatility, but also said they were aware that it will probably need some further buffs. Maelstrom there was very little on so I think no changes for the Mael.

There will be a pre recorded version later to catch up on. All in all it was promising though.
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#776 - 2013-04-25 13:59:40 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

did he presented anything on stream? I am at work :(


He didn't say too much about it, but he did say that the Tempest might be lacking something and they'd be looking at it as things progressed. He also mentioned emphasizing its role as a "big battlecruiser," which sounds promising.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#777 - 2013-04-25 14:04:39 UTC
Wrayeth wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

did he presented anything on stream? I am at work :(


He didn't say too much about it, but he did say that the Tempest might be lacking something and they'd be looking at it as things progressed. He also mentioned emphasizing its role as a "big battlecruiser," which sounds promising.



To achieve that they very much need to make it faster and lighter. As all this discussion started. And not a miserable 1kton. Must be made same weight as mega.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#778 - 2013-04-25 14:11:07 UTC
He might want to make it cheaper in that case, and delete the hurricane.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#779 - 2013-04-25 14:28:00 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
He might want to make it cheaper in that case, and delete the hurricane.


mmmm not such a bad idea.... :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#780 - 2013-04-25 15:15:11 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
He might want to make it cheaper in that case, and delete the hurricane.


Sounds like sour grapes to me. Thankfully CCP is sticking to a sound concept because the concept you were suggesting was very bad. CCP Rise indicated that a slot layout change on the Tempest was a bit too extreme, so you might as well forget it now and focus on something which is practical. Such as an increase in Dps on the current hull which is what I am looking for now.

I'm going to do some maths and work out a good bonus which will put it just below the mael in terms of sustained dps, and a little below the Tornado in terms of alpha. Ill post up the proposal later when I have a bit of time.