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A Carrier that Carries

Author
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-04-24 19:38:25 UTC
No fancy ideas here -- just a basic thing that I think people want: a non-combat oriented mobile base. Something to hold everything from ships to gear.

Each race has one of said ship. There would be minor differences between capabilities.

It can tank but not gank -- it would have carrier like ehp but no ability to fit combat mods of any kind.

I just wanted to re-spark the idea as I think a lot of people want some sort of mobile command center for small op and wh's etc.

Thoughts?

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Rudina
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#2 - 2013-04-24 19:42:22 UTC
What would be the benefits over just using a carrier?
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-04-24 19:47:26 UTC
Rudina wrote:
What would be the benefits over just using a carrier?


carriers can only carry a couple of bs sized ships. carriers must use cyno's. carriers do not have the capability to sustain you because they require fuel.

perhaps I should have made clearer that the desire for a mobile command center is based around the idea that it is usable as a sort of gimped pos, something you could take on a trip into a wh with a couple of guys and stay for a week or two. A miniature haven and a nomad encouraging ship.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#4 - 2013-04-24 19:49:59 UTC
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Rudina wrote:
What would be the benefits over just using a carrier?


carriers can only carry a couple of bs sized ships. carriers must use cyno's. carriers do not have the capability to sustain you because they require fuel.

perhaps I should have made clearer that the desire for a mobile command center is based around the idea that it is usable as a sort of gimped pos, something you could take on a trip into a wh with a couple of guys and stay for a week or two. A miniature haven and a nomad encouraging ship.


Sounds like an Orca, only able to hold more ships.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Rudina
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-04-24 19:54:04 UTC
We have a type of carrier that can carry more ships than a normal one, it's somewhat unsurprisingly called a supercarrier.

We also have a carrier that can use gates, it's called an Orca.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-04-24 20:20:56 UTC
Ruze wrote:
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Rudina wrote:
What would be the benefits over just using a carrier?


carriers can only carry a couple of bs sized ships. carriers must use cyno's. carriers do not have the capability to sustain you because they require fuel.

perhaps I should have made clearer that the desire for a mobile command center is based around the idea that it is usable as a sort of gimped pos, something you could take on a trip into a wh with a couple of guys and stay for a week or two. A miniature haven and a nomad encouraging ship.


Sounds like an Orca, only able to hold more ships.


Perhaps. But it would be specifically designed for living out of. vs the Orca which is primarily an industrial platform. It might have the ability to anchor and put up a force field or some other method of protection as is commonly proposed.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-24 20:22:49 UTC
Rudina wrote:
We have a type of carrier that can carry more ships than a normal one, it's somewhat unsurprisingly called a supercarrier.

We also have a carrier that can use gates, it's called an Orca.


a super is designed for combat and must rely on cynos. This carrier is obviously intended for a smaller scale similarly to the orca
only it would be specifically for nomading instead of mining.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#8 - 2013-04-24 20:29:09 UTC
The uniqueness (and problem) with a nomadic base of operations is that the pilot is screwed. To make the pilot less screwed, you'd have to give it a way to be protected when he's not around, and moved, while not leaving the pilot behind.

You see, one major killer of ideas like this is that they are written by pilots wanting a solo platform. Fly out in your base ship, park, undock your super-fit ratter, do your thing, grab your miner, do your thing, dock it all back up and go about your business.

That ship sounds awesome, till somebody steals it from you. Or blows it up knowing it's full of goodies. And what is a proper amount of hold and capacity?



If you can find a way to make this mobile base ship less solo focused (which, if you haven't gathered, CCP is against solo play on the basis that this is an MMO), then you get a cookie and we start an idea that might actually have merit.

But if an idiot like me can think of ways to abuse it mercilessly to my own advantage? Then your right in line with the other ideas which we don't see in game.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-04-24 20:29:54 UTC
Orcas may be on the small size for what the OP is wanting, but they have long served as mobile bases for pirates/gankers and Incursion runners.

I've used an Orca myself as a ratting base in nullsec, providing some small fleet boosts as well as extra ships, refitting, and holding ammo and loot. You can load drones into drone bays with them too, which is really handy. Great for those backwater systems with no outposts and no POS with SMA I can access.

You can live out of them if you wanted to. The only real constraint is that the hanger on them can't hold battleships, but there are plenty of very effective PvE and PvP ships in the cruisers and battlecruiser sizes.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
High Bear Nation.
#10 - 2013-04-24 20:30:47 UTC
this could be morphed into a BAD ASS idea.

a mobile pos.

a ship, with small pos like shields (only A WHOLE LOT LESS), that can anchor and be utilized as a mobile command center.

warp into a wh, anchor this ship. it can use its own fitting station to change from link to link (for mining or combat bonuses), you can dock ships in it, maybe 5Mm3, it has a large ore hold for gas and ore, plus fleet storage tabs etc.

doesnt have to have alot of storage, but some descent ammount.
it has cruiser shields until anchored, then more than a titan (since its a mini-pos now). the shields extend to 1/2 that of a small pos in area covered. only takes 10 mins to anchor and unanchor. no refine capability, no way to anchor anything like a pos..its simply for nomadic purposes.

or, give it a very small refine and manufacture capability (maybe ammo/drones only) 2 slots or so.

maybe the size of a carrier, but weak and frail. mega-expensive.

catch one at a gate and blast it for lolz...but once anchored, its pretty tough. not unbreakable and NO REINFORCING it. it dies if not actively defended. no weapons, no mobility once anchored....

this would be kewl for those nomadic wh folks, or folks that want to "free graze" null sec.
also, once anchored, it might have a reduced sig radius like an anom, but not as small. difficult to scan, but not "hard".

it would have limited capabilities, but for those who would use it in this capacity, it would be a live saver and allow us to cruise around and live out of our "mini-van"...
MrDiao
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#11 - 2013-04-24 20:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: MrDiao
The carrier does not carry capsules, then people just never use it to carry ships for combat support, and then the carrier just downgraded to the very irrelevant "sentry dps platform". If carriers are supposed to be a dps dealer with sentry drones, please CCP, rename the carrier to "Heavy Assault Sentryship" or "Drone Carrier", to distinguish it from the real carrier that carries people.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#12 - 2013-04-24 20:42:21 UTC
what he wants is this:

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4848331841734299&pid=1.7

which i do want too, i dont need jump drives, repairers, gank bonuses or any of that crap, all i need is a high sec capital ship that can carry 5 or 7 Fitted battleships on a single trip.

no ship currently in the game fits this role:

orca = mining support ship, industrial cargo ship. can carry only industrial shisp.
Freighter = material hauling can only carry 1 battleship on a courier package whic is stupid by the way, useless for this purpose either.
Carriers= fleet support ship, that repairs others, offers firepower with fighters is a combat ship.
Mothership/superCarrier/Titan= same as the carrier.


see how NONE of this ships fits the role we need? i m thinking people might be too obstuse to understand what we are asking for, since they keep suggesting for ships that do NOT offer what we need a simple Space faring trailer, MAYBE with a passcode for piloting it and getting ships in and out of it.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-04-24 21:02:59 UTC
So you want a station you can pilot through gates?


What you are asking for is ridiculous.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#14 - 2013-04-24 21:11:20 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:

also, once anchored, it might have a reduced sig radius like an anom, but not as small. difficult to scan, but not "hard".


If anything, the increased output of the shield generators should increase the signal strength, making it stick out in the cold void of space like a beacon. In return, it could have a small clatharate bay, maybe enough to reinforce it for 6 hours, but with a kicker (to discourage just leaving it out in the open): the pilot needs to trigger the reinforced mode manually. This way, the six-hour siege break could be timed tactically, for example to coincide with the arrival of friendlies, which can pick off the attackers by not having to worry about their mobile base.

I could imagine this as an "T3 Rorqual" - a mobile base capable of sustaining a small marauder fleet, possibly even providing configurable boons (both combat and industry), at the expense of inordinate amounts of skill training required, and the material costs of the ship running somewhere between a Rorqual and a Titan, and the lack of weapon fitting, naturally (no matter how big, nothing has enough reactor output for everything)
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#15 - 2013-04-24 21:24:00 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:

also, once anchored, it might have a reduced sig radius like an anom, but not as small. difficult to scan, but not "hard".


If anything, the increased output of the shield generators should increase the signal strength, making it stick out in the cold void of space like a beacon. In return, it could have a small clatharate bay, maybe enough to reinforce it for 6 hours, but with a kicker (to discourage just leaving it out in the open): the pilot needs to trigger the reinforced mode manually. This way, the six-hour siege break could be timed tactically, for example to coincide with the arrival of friendlies, which can pick off the attackers by not having to worry about their mobile base.

I could imagine this as an "T3 Rorqual" - a mobile base capable of sustaining a small marauder fleet, possibly even providing configurable boons (both combat and industry), at the expense of inordinate amounts of skill training required, and the material costs of the ship running somewhere between a Rorqual and a Titan, and the lack of weapon fitting, naturally (no matter how big, nothing has enough reactor output for everything)


Take the 'pilot' out of it. Make it completely run without docking your pod. Create a new system, and allow players with rights to move it by heading and speed or through bookmarks and the like. Hell, even let it cyno and jump bridge, but at the expense of fuel and only when a 'controller' has that skill capability anyhow. But no pilot is docked.

Allow it to berth multiple ships. Give it POS capable shields (fuel use, of course), but no weaponry. The true defense of this thing is moving it, not being in the same place two days in a row.

And then give it a module system, whereas you offline and online various modules that allow it to do the jobs needed. Cloning bay. Refining. Research. Manufacturing. Extra hold. Etc.



The key point, is to make it so it's not a ship. You don't fly it around, you don't shoot people. It shouldn't be a one-man float boat.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Loki Feiht
Warcrows
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#16 - 2013-04-24 21:55:31 UTC
Sounds like it should be a Thukker ship

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
#17 - 2013-04-25 10:07:02 UTC
Ruze wrote:

...

You see, one major killer of ideas like this is that they are written by pilots wanting a solo platform. Fly out in your base ship, park, undock your super-fit ratter, do your thing, grab your miner, do your thing, dock it all back up and go about your business.

...

If you can find a way to make this mobile base ship less solo focused (which, if you haven't gathered, CCP is against solo play on the basis that this is an MMO), then you get a cookie and we start an idea that might actually have merit.

...

That's the problem right there. F*** CCP, basically. If people want to solo they should be able to do so. Their money is as good as anyone's when it comes to paying the subscription.

The claim that a solo playstyle should in some way be "anti-MMO" is evidently nonsense. Operating solo does not imply that you do not 1) provide content and 2) interact with others. Of course you do. Maybe much more so than some ******** gang of biomass recycling weekend suiciders on a Uedama gate. The sheer populating of the EVE universe is content providing. CCP imposes interdependancy to force feed subscribers into the game and foul solo play for the sake of argument. A strategy that will fail, long term, I think. But we'll see.

A lot of people would like to be able to go lone wolf because it ties in well with sci-fi lore, as it is, but also because it represents a challenge in itself. A gamestyle that many of today's explorers in EVE are pursuing, by the way. CCP's attempts to brute force maximize the playerbase by working against what many see as an attractive mode of gaming must be concidered right out hostile to this (substantial?) segment of customers.

So. I fully support the OP's notion of a mobile base type of ship. People can use it for gang or solo as they please. Smile

Guido Tye
RvB Industries
#18 - 2013-04-25 10:25:13 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
what he wants is this:

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4848331841734299&pid=1.7

which i do want too, i dont need jump drives, repairers, gank bonuses or any of that crap, all i need is a high sec capital ship that can carry 5 or 7 Fitted battleships on a single trip.

no ship currently in the game fits this role:

orca = mining support ship, industrial cargo ship. can carry only industrial shisp.
Freighter = material hauling can only carry 1 battleship on a courier package whic is stupid by the way, useless for this purpose either.
Carriers= fleet support ship, that repairs others, offers firepower with fighters is a combat ship.
Mothership/superCarrier/Titan= same as the carrier.


see how NONE of this ships fits the role we need? i m thinking people might be too obstuse to understand what we are asking for, since they keep suggesting for ships that do NOT offer what we need a simple Space faring trailer, MAYBE with a passcode for piloting it and getting ships in and out of it.


I think your wrong here, firstly what the OP wants, isnt a high sec, gate jumping bs hauler (that is what you want).
Secondly, the orca can haul any ship type, the Rorq can only move mining ships.

Personally I think the OP's idea is great, but would require a silly amount of adjusting to be viable just yet. It would be nice to have space less owned by sov control, but more malleable and to see nomads, or entire corps of nomads, wandering the stars with their VW space campers in tow.
There could be some interesting applications for PVP to =)
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#19 - 2013-04-25 13:08:46 UTC
Sissy Fuzz wrote:
Ruze wrote:

...

You see, one major killer of ideas like this is that they are written by pilots wanting a solo platform. Fly out in your base ship, park, undock your super-fit ratter, do your thing, grab your miner, do your thing, dock it all back up and go about your business.

...

If you can find a way to make this mobile base ship less solo focused (which, if you haven't gathered, CCP is against solo play on the basis that this is an MMO), then you get a cookie and we start an idea that might actually have merit.

...

That's the problem right there. F*** CCP, basically. If people want to solo they should be able to do so. Their money is as good as anyone's when it comes to paying the subscription.

The claim that a solo playstyle should in some way be "anti-MMO" is evidently nonsense. Operating solo does not imply that you do not 1) provide content and 2) interact with others. Of course you do. Maybe much more so than some ******** gang of biomass recycling weekend suiciders on a Uedama gate. The sheer populating of the EVE universe is content providing. CCP imposes interdependancy to force feed subscribers into the game and foul solo play for the sake of argument. A strategy that will fail, long term, I think. But we'll see.

A lot of people would like to be able to go lone wolf because it ties in well with sci-fi lore, as it is, but also because it represents a challenge in itself. A gamestyle that many of today's explorers in EVE are pursuing, by the way. CCP's attempts to brute force maximize the playerbase by working against what many see as an attractive mode of gaming must be concidered right out hostile to this (substantial?) segment of customers.

So. I fully support the OP's notion of a mobile base type of ship. People can use it for gang or solo as they please. Smile



Sure, players can run solo. But any ship you design capable of breaking the primary mechanic of the game (more players equal more power), and it will be used to break all the other mechanics.

For instance, if you make this ship capable of being flown by one pilot ... run by one pilot ... storing all of one pilots things. Fine. But like a titan, no matter the power, if only one pilot flies it and they have no support, people will hunt it down to destroy it.

You either have to let it be able to hide to be secure (afk cloaky), or give it defenses to be secure (pos guns), or use friends to keep it secure. I can assure you, CCP will choose friends, and I don't disagree with them. The other two can be sorely abused.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Ix Method
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-04-25 13:18:06 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
So you want a station you can pilot through gates?


What you are asking for is ridiculous.

QFT.

Travelling at the speed of love.

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