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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Unseen Spectre
Shadow Eye Ops
#1841 - 2013-04-24 19:46:48 UTC
Well you are probably right :D ... as long as the do not wait until forever to do the tweaks... :D
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#1842 - 2013-04-24 19:59:52 UTC
Unseen Spectre wrote:
Well you are probably right :D ... as long as the do not wait until forever to do the tweaks... :D

Cheers. Here's to crossed fingers.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1843 - 2013-04-24 20:13:40 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


Resistance bonuses are problematic for very clear reasons which Fozzie has done a great job articulating. The ships that field them have a range of power and application and should each be addresses relative to the new changes individually, rather than making oversimplified "amarr is getting weaker" conclusions.
Wait... I'm confused... we HAVE been trying to point out the issues relative to these ships. I know I personally have made several posts suggesting reasonable alternatives for the Abaddon's issues. Yet here you are coming on and telling us we need to do your work for you. You admit these resistance nerfs are over the top, that every ship hit them will require going back and re-rebalancing it... and then go on to tell us that we need to do the work for you, rather then you having the sense to not put the resist nerf through like this and instead go back and do that manual rebalancing for each ship so affected in the first place!

Quote:
There is virtually no power based conclusions you can make about the relationship between 8 low mega and amarr as an overall race design. You need to be much more specific on how that is a problem.
the vast majority of us long ago stopped beating that dead horse because as you just pointed out, there isn't any valid reason to rant about it beyond nostalgia. Again, we have instead gone back and pointed out specific issues with each ship if there is one and even gone on to do our best to offer you what we believe are reasonable and balanced options to deal with these issues!

Quote:
Closing the gap between new players and old players in some areas is definitely positive. If you notice that EVE gets to a point where you would rather have less ISK and SP let me know, we'll fix it asap.
Stop focusing on and feeding the trolls, and try responding to those of us who are actually trying to work WITH you on these issues in a reasonable and positive fashion!
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1844 - 2013-04-24 20:16:02 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
LuisWu wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

We aren't gone. Fozzie and Ytterbium and I have been talking about the battleships almost every day still. After our last round of reviews we still feel that Amarr is likely in the best place it can be for Odyssey. We will keep watching closely as everything heads to sisi and if more adjustments are needed we will make them.


Yes, because cap problems and fitting problems are solved, the new armageddon has stolen the hearts of the community, and this thread is full of happiness and love.


CCP RISE
Yes im sure people would love to know why amarr ships are going to stay so handicapped
- cap regen is far too low for guns too run for longer than a couple of minutes
-as a result they have to use more slots for cap mods. is this acceptable for CCP? no other race needs to do this.
-The apoc will still be slow when dual plated.
-beams are still impossible to fit on many of the battleships and again lots of mods to fit it if you can and for cap.
-the changes for laser turrets aren't enough any response to this?

Also any ideas on perhaps changing slot layouts on any of these ships?
How about abbadon trades a turret for a utility high? and maybe lose a high for a low.
you could compensate dps with stronger damage bonus.

^^^^ This exactly points out what I stated to you, dear CCP Rise, in my last post. You ignore the actual issues to instead either respond to "rant/rage/QQ" posts or feed the trolls and ignore those of us doing what you claim you want us to be doing.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1845 - 2013-04-24 20:20:49 UTC
Ruze wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time Amarr have had to give up a ship class. You're essentially left with the Abaddon for large fleets with rep and cap transfer support, the Apoc for the odd sniperfun but generally overlooked in action, and now the Geddon will be the non-pirate cross trained powerhouse for small brawls.

A year from now, their metrics will prove the points of it. And instead of fixing the cap regen, or addressing lasers, they'll do something 'interesting' and we'll get another rate of fire bonus, or they'll drop a 'repair cycle time' reduction that hurts us worse.

This is par for the course, believe it or not. Luckily, our battlecruisers are the ****.

One of the rare times I find myself with common emotional ground with you, Ruze.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1846 - 2013-04-24 20:22:12 UTC
Unseen Spectre wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Well, I get the impression when the balancing initiative started they were a little bit on the fence about how to handle the resistance bonus. Now that they are set on a course of action a polishing pass (which we have seen done) for any necessary minor tweaking that will need to be done as a result should not be a huge deal (possibly in a point release).


Well, you may be right. However, in all fairness , I think that changes to the resistance and possible tweaks to the individual ships should take place at the same time, rather than doing the nerfs first and the tweaks in a later expansion. I would rather see the job done the first time rather than have to wait for yet another rebalancing pass - get the problem solved now rather than later. Then they can focus on another group of ships.

To reiterate his point for all the tl;dr out there... "If your going to do something, do it right the first time, take pride in your work, and don't make excuses to procrastinate over it."
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#1847 - 2013-04-24 20:22:57 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Ruze wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time Amarr have had to give up a ship class. You're essentially left with the Abaddon for large fleets with rep and cap transfer support, the Apoc for the odd sniperfun but generally overlooked in action, and now the Geddon will be the non-pirate cross trained powerhouse for small brawls.

A year from now, their metrics will prove the points of it. And instead of fixing the cap regen, or addressing lasers, they'll do something 'interesting' and we'll get another rate of fire bonus, or they'll drop a 'repair cycle time' reduction that hurts us worse.

This is par for the course, believe it or not. Luckily, our battlecruisers are the ****.

One of the rare times I find myself with common emotional ground with you, Ruze.


I'm not really a bad person, I'm just written that way.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Asmodai Xodai
#1848 - 2013-04-24 20:32:08 UTC
Would people please quit agitating for more cap use bonuses? What part of 'it isn't a reward to be able to use our racial weapons' don't you understand?

It's like you want to fix the problem by putting a band-aid over it instead of addressing the real issue. Need for cap use bonuses suggests problems with lasers, not with ships. Don't you get that?

Don't give us cap use bonuses. FIX LASERS.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1849 - 2013-04-24 20:34:38 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Would people please quit agitating for more cap use bonuses? What part of 'it isn't a reward to be able to use our racial weapons' don't you understand?

It's like you want to fix the problem by putting a band-aid over it instead of addressing the real issue. Need for cap use bonuses suggests problems with lasers, not with ships. Don't you get that?

Don't give us cap use bonuses. FIX LASERS.

:O
no i dont get it ,
arent lasers should be powerhungry op guns only amarr capable of using them reliably?
Meduza13
Silver Octopus
Infernal Octopus
#1850 - 2013-04-24 21:46:46 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:

Stop focusing on and feeding the trolls, and try responding to those of us who are actually trying to work WITH you on these issues in a reasonable and positive fashion!


Some people can call me troll, thats fine, but unlike many people who spam this forum with posts I actually use amarr ships in combat, and by looking on eve-kill.net many "top posters' here kills nothing at all, or if they do its frigates and they flying trashers, and for sure not amarr battleships. So keep on doing your work of cooperating with DEVs in orderly fashion.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#1851 - 2013-04-24 21:47:46 UTC
So quick BS line balance roundup.

Combat ships:

lineup 1):

Tormentor/Punisher > Maller > Abaddon

(Abaddon have a little bit of a cap problem, but no biggie. Amarr ships without cap problems are not really amarr ships, and CCP Rise is making balance not magic here.)

lineup 2):

Crucifier > Dragoon > Arbitrator > GedDomi

(Great. Amarr pilots who have trained for drone boats have their reward now, fantastic.
Wait a minute ...
Is it really a combat ship? Weren't all of the amarr drone ships - support ships? Will we have one more drone ship when CCP will decide to add real support battleship? Will amarr have 2 drone/support battleships then? Will New Armageddon compete in its role with Curse and Bhal, one is squishy other is quite pricey by comparison to GedDomi?
Nah, CCP Rise is great and probably considered every possibility. So no worries, sleep well faithful amarr pilots.)

Attack ships:

lineup 1):

Oracle > Apocalypse

(Oh, how fun is that! Two ships are competing with each other quite violently. One can fit t2 longrange guns and other can not. The funny thing is that it's the bigger one that is outgunned by its faster and more nimble little cousin. Oh Snap, balance I didn't recognize you at first.)

lineup 2):

Omen > Nothing

(Now this is just sad.
Wait, don't be sad! I can tell you a fun story about spaceships, new pilots and of course about balance.
It will start like this:
Hi there newbie. So I heard you can fly cruisers now, good. Ou, you like Omen you say and can't wait to fly something similar, but bigger with a heavier punch? A battleship perhaps just like your favorite Omen? Do not worry, all is balanced and fair in land where spaceships are serious business. Players who like their tough tank Maller will have their Abaddon, players who trained for arbitrator/prophecy are rewarded with GedDomi. So what about you my new friend who likes to fly Omens? Well for you, ... for you my friend. For you there is nothing, you can become a miner, though. I heard it's fun, and most important thing of all it is balanced!
You are still sad? Well, you know someone must be sad it wouldn't be balance if everyone became happy.)


I can't wait for such awesome balance. Now I just need to find those funny brownies that CCP Rise is obviously munching and I will be set to meet this new bs balance. Blink

P.S.
Quote:
We decided to use the Apocalypse as the secondary laser platform, rather than the Armageddon for two main reasons. Firstly, one had to have drones, and the Armageddon already did

If Apoc will be reskinned/remodeled, as I think it will be remodeled/reskinned then it will look like the most drone ship of all amarr drone ships with little drone eggs/balls under its belly just like Algos. Big smile
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1852 - 2013-04-24 22:17:52 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
So quick BS line balance roundup.

Combat ships:

lineup 1):

Tormentor/Punisher > Maller > Abaddon

(Abaddon have a little bit of a cap problem, but no biggie. Amarr ships without cap problems are not really amarr ships, and CCP Rise is making balance not magic here.)

lineup 2):

Crucifier > Dragoon > Arbitrator > GedDomi

(Great. Amarr pilots who have trained for drone boats have their reward now, fantastic.
Wait a minute ...
Is it really a combat ship? Weren't all of the amarr drone ships - support ships? Will we have one more drone ship when CCP will decide to add real support battleship? Will amarr have 2 drone/support battleships then? Will New Armageddon compete in its role with Curse and Bhal, one is squishy other is quite pricey by comparison to GedDomi?
Nah, CCP Rise is great and probably considered every possibility. So no worries, sleep well faithful amarr pilots.)

Attack ships:

lineup 1):

Oracle > Apocalypse

(Oh, how fun is that! Two ships are competing with each other quite violently. One can fit t2 longrange guns and other can not. The funny thing is that it's the bigger one that is outgunned by its faster and more nimble little cousin. Oh Snap, balance I didn't recognize you at first.)

lineup 2):

Omen > Nothing

(Now this is just sad.
Wait, don't be sad! I can tell you a fun story about spaceships, new pilots and of course about balance.
It will start like this:
Hi there newbie. So I heard you can fly cruisers now, good. Ou, you like Omen you say and can't wait to fly something similar, but bigger with a heavier punch? A battleship perhaps just like your favorite Omen? Do not worry, all is balanced and fair in land where spaceships are serious business. Players who like their tough tank Maller will have their Abaddon, players who trained for arbitrator/prophecy are rewarded with GedDomi. So what about you my new friend who likes to fly Omens? Well for you, ... for you my friend. For you there is nothing, you can become a miner, though. I heard it's fun, and most important thing of all it is balanced!
You are still sad? Well, you know someone must be sad it wouldn't be balance if everyone became happy.)


I can't wait for such awesome balance. Now I just need to find those funny brownies that CCP Rise is obviously munching and I will be set to meet this new bs balance. Blink

P.S.
Quote:
We decided to use the Apocalypse as the secondary laser platform, rather than the Armageddon for two main reasons. Firstly, one had to have drones, and the Armageddon already did

If Apoc will be reskinned/remodeled, as I think it will be remodeled/reskinned then it will look like the most drone ship of all amarr drone ships with little drone eggs/balls under its belly just like Algos. Big smile


Well attack was never going to be their specialty really .. dual plated apoc (laughs) so nippy... but then mega has the same problem in the gallente lineup simply didn't follow the thorax example ... but hey Hyperion has good speed now.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1853 - 2013-04-24 22:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Crash Lander
@CCP Rise
In my post I pointed out how I think the tracking bonus in exchange for the cap bonus is not a good trade:

Crash Lander wrote:
Test server Feedback:
...
In-case it isn't clear what I'm trying to say here; I'll re-iterate it differently: Removing the cap bonus is forcing me to swap a rig that was previously free to be anything (DPS/Tracking/Range/Whatever) to a cap rig to compensate. This in an indirect trade of a bonus and probably not the intended effect.
You've given me a fixed bonus (extra tracking) and taken away my choice of a bonus in a rig. This is why cap bonuses (and cap use bonuses on Amarr ships aren't currently as useless as people think)


Here is yet another way of putting it. At Level V

Today:
Ship with 50% cap use bonus + 3 empty rig slots

Say you didn't change the ships and only implemented the Large Energy Turret changes: Today I can emulate the same with this (ignoring the PG change, if that matters to you put an Ancillary rig and you still have 1 rig slot left):
Ship with Cap bonus + 1 Large energy Discharge (20% Cap use bonus) + 2 empty rig slots.

Post proposed patch:
New Apoc in terms of old Apoc:
Ship + 3 x Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster I (Each gives 15% bonus with stacking=>36.6% tracking vs the 37.5 that your new proposed bonus gives)

I would really really appreciate your answer on why you think taking a useful bonus away, then giving me essentially the equivalent of 3 tracking rigs is a move forward.

Today If I felt like my Apoc needed more tracking, I can just stick 3 tracking rigs on it AND not have cap issues. Tomorrow I'm forced to have the 3 tracking rigs whether I need it or not and potentially deal with cap problems.

This was mentioned differently way back in the thread on how the tracking bonus doesn't synergize with this ship.

I just don't understand what you are trying to do here.
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1854 - 2013-04-24 22:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshi Hanshin
I decided to come over here from the Caldari thread. Since it is a f*ing nuclear wasteland over there. Sadly it doens't seem to be any better...Maybe I should go fly the rust buckets or green dildos. Ugh

CCP Rise, I am sure you won't respond nor actually comprehend my feedback. Just so I can say later "I told you so, imbecile", I will start. FIrst off here is a taste of your own medicine and a reminder you have a roof over your head because of the players. Remember the higher you get the harder you will hit the ground...
________________________________________________________

CCP Rise,

Once again and here you have shown that you don't know what you are doing or understand the game. Just because you work for CCP DOESN'T mean you understand the game or the interactions that make it up. If anything you and your fellow dev has proven that you are both assholes that don't listen to specific critic. Nor seem to understand that communication requires understanding in both directions. If you need help with that, I am sure that I can find a good therapist in Iceland for you.

Also I will look up a employment agency since you might need that too. As your employment should be based performance and feedback from the gaming community... I am thinking we all agree by majority you fail.

(How do you like trolling and blantly insulting remarks like those you gave to us? Not so pleasant is it! Try acting like a responsible human being).
_________________________________________________________

Critic:

Since you seem to have trouble reading and understanding sentences, I will use bullet-points.

  • Resistance nerf is retardedly over done. If you want to break ships you "rebalanced" then do this..
    • Reason: Will cause certain already 'balanced' ships to be trash and more worthless than before their "balancing".
  • Amarr Battleships (Apocs too) will not be able to be cap stable without extensive modules and rigs
    • Reason: Lasers use a ******** amount of cap compared to hybrids-Gallente/Caldari gunboats
  • Armageddon looks just like a cheap knockoff of the Bhaalgorn. Should stay a Brawler Battleship, which it is good at.
    • Reason: If you want to add a drone Battleship for amarr add it as a new Battleship not removing a good brawler.
  • Lasers are broken in that they use way too much cap for their damage.
    • Reason: Projectile use 0 cap, missiles use 0 cap, 425mm T2 use 2.19 GJ/s compared to Tachyon T2 @ 7.6 GJ/s. This results in the Tachyons using 3.5x the amount of cap that its 'comparable' railgun uses. Combined with smaller capacitors and low cap-regen speeds results in the presently useless weapon.
  • Apoc will not be able to fit 8 Tachyon lasers while the Oracle which is a BC can?!
    • Reason: Why is a BC able to fit that and the Apoc which is specifically for sniping can't, makes no sense!
  • The goal of Eve is taking to time to get good at something. To take that away ruins the pride and fullfillment of accomplishing a goal. That is what makes Eve the game that it is and Eve. I am newer than many of those who posted here. Yet even I understand and appreciate the way things are. If new players don't that is their problem not yours/ours.
    • [*] I and the others I am sure would love and explaination in detail why you feel that your changes are reasonable. A separate thread with lots of details and data would be nice.
    Tonto Auri
    Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
    #1855 - 2013-04-24 23:26:00 UTC
    The goal of EVE is to spend time in a pleasant way. Here I disagree with you. And no, it doesn't mean, that it should be pleasant every time, all the time. This statement only means, that overall impression of looking back over time is what you call a "time well spent".
    For some, this "pleasure" means they have a good few kills. Or many good kills. Seems like CCP Rise is one of them. His problem is that he's not a whole EVE. But he refuse to understand (not to say - acknowledge) this fact.
    I'll be blunt this time: There's people exist, who play EVE for reasons, that have nothing to do with kill counts, or in any way related to PvP as dedicated activity. They are not interested in technical mumbo-jumbo. They don't read these parts of forums, unless specifically pointed to. These people play EVE for it's storyline. And all that is associated with it. I tell you, that once you push these changes to live, you'll get very, very famous. You'll share the fame of Herostratus. I wonder, if this name tell you anything, though... Likely a no. May be a name of CCP TomB will spark some memory? Still no? You are too young to know his story? Shame.

    Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
    Kenshi Hanshin
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #1856 - 2013-04-24 23:56:19 UTC
    Tonto Auri wrote:
    The goal of EVE is to spend time in a pleasant way. Here I disagree with you. And no, it doesn't mean, that it should be pleasant every time, all the time. This statement only means, that overall impression of looking back over time is what you call a "time well spent".
    For some, this "pleasure" means they have a good few kills. Or many good kills. Seems like CCP Rise is one of them. His problem is that he's not a whole EVE. But he refuse to understand (not to say - acknowledge) this fact.
    I'll be blunt this time: There's people exist, who play EVE for reasons, that have nothing to do with kill counts, or in any way related to PvP as dedicated activity. They are not interested in technical mumbo-jumbo. They don't read these parts of forums, unless specifically pointed to. These people play EVE for it's storyline. And all that is associated with it. I tell you, that once you push these changes to live, you'll get very, very famous. You'll share the fame of Herostratus. I wonder, if this name tell you anything, though... Likely a no. May be a name of CCP TomB will spark some memory? Still no? You are too young to know his story? Shame.

    Though the names and the stories I don't personally know. I do understand what you are saying. I will be blunt as well. I am mostly a PvEr. I do however engage in PvP on behalf of my corp and alliance. Yet, I find the complexity of the game and the interactions with the people fun/pleasurable.

    Yet, I also feel a strong sense of justice. I cannot see that which I know will be unjust to others slip by. Not when I know that it will affect many people whom I 'know' in-game horrifically. Many of those people may be corpmates, alliance-buddies and even other pilots outside of those groups. I don't care if you are blue, neutral or red to me in game. Yet, you and I all have an investment in this universe of Eve.

    This universe doesn't revolve around only PvP, PvE, Indy etc. It is a combination of all those things. That is something I feel is being lost. Yes, it would be nice to see all ships have a use in pvp. I am sure they do i the right situation and in the right hands. Yet, you can't take away from their other uses, such as pve.


    What you, CCP Rise, has proposed for BS will undue that balance. I would rather you spend the time to work on solutions to problems and issues that this community has raised. Yet, you seem to be so foolhardy and arrogant as to put your own wishes above the needs/wishes of the community. That alone is enought question your ability to perform with merit the job you have. If you disagree with that, please listen, understand and act on what the community is telling you.
    Shinzhi Xadi
    Doomheim
    #1857 - 2013-04-25 00:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
    The amount of hate in this thread is becoming strong..

    I really hope CCP understands WHY its happening, and WHAT we are so friggin upset about.

    I am all for tiericide, I was really looking forward to battleship changes.

    *I don't agree with nerfing the resist bonus on the old tier 3 bs.

    *You say you want to fix the apocalypse, great! Make it able to use all amarr guns, including tachyons without having to dedicate 5 or 6 slots to just getting the dang cap to let you shoot and tank.

    *The changes to the armageddon were unexpected, I'm on the fence about them. I see how they could be considered improvements, but the ship is changed so much, its unrecognizable as amarr now.

    After seeing all you are doing, including insisting the massive cap/pg problems, and not good enough changes to large energy turrets are not a problem, I'm terrified at what you will do to the battleships I actually use. The navy geddon, navy apoc, nightmare, bhaalgorn, redeemer, and the paladin.

    Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
    Loki Vice
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #1858 - 2013-04-25 00:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Vice
    CCP Kil2 wrote:
    After our last round of reviews we still feel that Amarr is likely in the best place it can be for Odyssey. .


    Well now that just isn't true, you've turned the armageddon into the hyperion (it's never going to see the light of day in any pvp situation that involves more than 5 people, because solo and small gang pvp is on the decline kil2 face it (you could fix this, but that would require removing OGB entirely, which won't ever happen so good fight shepherd).)

    You also still have yet to address to serious cap issues for amarr ships, or how difficult it is to fit beams onto anything without gimping the fit entirely.

    Since your stuck on this god awful abomination of a geddon, care to address the issue if you took away so much power grid that it is no longer capable of fitting a whole rack of heavy neuts and a proper armor tank for a neuting ship? Right now with how little grid there is on the geddon, every other battleship makes a better neut ship. Know why? because neut the range bonus is ****, has been **** and will always be ****, it needs to be a neuting strength bonus to actually set it apart from any other neuting battleship

    EDIT: thought of more things - Right now battleships have next to no place in eve in pvp unless your grinding structures, Tech 3's brawl better, t3's snipe better, dreads blap better, really they have a purpose with mass numbers as an alphafleet that is litterally it.

    Instead of making BS's better than their smaller counterparts, you have chosen to make EVERY. SINGLE. AMARR. BATTLESHIP. WORSE. Not a single one of our battleships is being improved, it is a straight nerf across the board you can't deny it.
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #1859 - 2013-04-25 00:30:57 UTC
    Loki Vice wrote:
    CCP Kil2 wrote:
    After our last round of reviews we still feel that Amarr is likely in the best place it can be for Odyssey. .


    Well now that just isn't true, you've turned the armageddon into the hyperion (it's never going to see the light of day in any pvp situation that involves more than 5 people, because solo and small gang pvp is on the decline kil2 face it (you could fix this, but that would require removing OGB entirely, which won't ever happen so good fight shepherd).)

    You also still have yet to address to serious cap issues for amarr ships, or how difficult it is to fit beams onto anything without gimping the fit entirely.

    Since your stuck on this god awful abomination of a geddon, care to address the issue if you took away so much power grid that it is no longer capable of fitting a whole rack of heavy neuts and a proper armor tank for a neuting ship? Right now with how little grid there is on the geddon, every other battleship makes a better neut ship. Know why? because neut the range bonus is ****, has been **** and will always be ****, it needs to be a neuting strength bonus to actually set it apart from any other neuting battleship



    WAHT? You drunk really? The geddon has issue of not looking amarr at all now. but its SUPER powerful. Almost all low sec and high sec pvp will see it used.

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Loki Vice
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #1860 - 2013-04-25 00:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Vice
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    [quote=Loki Vice][quote=CCP Kil2] -snip-

    WAHT? You drunk really? The geddon has issue of not looking amarr at all now. but its SUPER powerful. Almost all low sec and high sec pvp will see it used.


    Guuurl, you cray cray. in highsex pvp happens in stations and on gates -fact- where you don't need a useless 30km neut (plus remember you aren't getting a full wrack of heavies) so a neuting phoon/dominix will actually prove to be more beneficial. and in lowsex? nothing is going to change because of the new geddon it will die in a bag of phallusus, frankly if it stays in its current itteration i look forward to seeing all the bads who think "HURP DURP GEDDON OP" fly it into lowsex and add it to my pile o kills.