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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#661 - 2013-04-22 13:29:02 UTC
Dude... what was the main iconic typhoon ever? The nanophoon? What it used ? ONLY MISSILES AND DRONES.

Stop making yourself look stupid. You keep sayign everyone is pushign for winmatar, everything for you is a conspiracy to make minmatar overpowered, you look even less bright than some classical COAD posters.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#662 - 2013-04-22 15:04:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dude... what was the main iconic typhoon ever? The nanophoon? What it used ? ONLY MISSILES AND DRONES.

Stop making yourself look stupid. You keep sayign everyone is pushign for winmatar, everything for you is a conspiracy to make minmatar overpowered, you look even less bright than some classical COAD posters.


I bet more used smartbombs than that or the close range dps monster fit, still it was not a primary missile ship ,nor its bonuses nor its slotlayout.
No i not saying everyone wants matar op,as most people still just want good usable ships with matar playstlye ,but you and some others just want winmatar opline .
Every one of your posts are aiming for that to boost booost more boost matar or derail other topics to dont bring other races to inline .

"Or that. If we go pure missiles then drop 1 launcher point to give back our old drone bay. Feels more minmatar that way. It actually weakens our damage output overall, but then we get some utility to compensate."
see thats a reasonable ask from a not as biased guy as you

and something from you
"Thye typhoon now is great. It just could have the old drone bay back..." oh yeah... totally would be balanced
so an already great ship need more boosting, yea not asking for opness at all
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#663 - 2013-04-22 16:28:54 UTC
Just ignore Naomi. She has some insane idea that all Minmatar ships are OP and is on a crusade to get them nerfed even more into the ground. Under the character portrait is a little triangle you can click on to get a drop-down menu of options. One of those options is 'Hide Posts'. It works like a charm for trolls like Naomi.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#664 - 2013-04-22 16:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vayn Baxtor
Anabella Rella wrote:
Just ignore Naomi. She has some insane idea that all Minmatar ships are OP and is on a crusade to get them nerfed even more into the ground. Under the character portrait is a little triangle you can click on to get a drop-down menu of options. One of those options is 'Hide Posts'. It works like a charm for trolls like Naomi.


I have nothing against her, but thanks for sharing that Hide Post things.

Back on topic.
I will refrain from any further mindcrafting as it won't really help much since the tiericide is rather narrow and focused on one single path.

At least the initial concept of adding the target painting bonus was disregarded. I really found that it was not going to help much at all.

I can only say that along with these changes AND the cruise missile changes, I fear there will indeed be a lot of whine - such is unavoidable in an MMOG, duh. I find this "dmg dmg dmg" route on every ship has always been a terrible concept because it is the only thing that seems to matter these days. This is somewhere why I like the Scorpion because it is more of a Support BS than just another BS doing damage.

But in the end, it is probably better this way, for now. I just wish we could see more diversity and not just damage-damage-damage. However, in order to ever see such, one would require a totally different mindset on the damage model and gameplay (which many will disagree on).


But that's just me.


Quote:

The flying garbage can is a very special ship.


With the updated shaders and all that, doesn't look that junky too me (same for various other updated Minmatar ships). If it is really to be flying garbage, you need to tease the art department and make things less shiny. Leave the shiny to Gallente and Amarr.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#665 - 2013-04-22 16:49:30 UTC
Thanks for the Hide post hint!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#666 - 2013-04-22 17:13:21 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Just ignore Naomi. She has some insane idea that all Minmatar ships are OP and is on a crusade to get them nerfed even more into the ground. Under the character portrait is a little triangle you can click on to get a drop-down menu of options. One of those options is 'Hide Posts'. It works like a charm for trolls like Naomi.

hehe sure ,
I dont think most matar ships are op ,but many clearly are , oh and i dont want to nerf them to be useless at all , dunno why you think thats my intention.

They should be viable,fun and different from other races ,but not plain better.

You can say the raven is different from the typhoon ,but i cant see why i should use it over the typhoon. Even asked for fits to show us where the raven is better,but nobody posted any.
or
compare the tempest vs the mega , they seems so close to eachother ,one is little faster and more paper dps other more utility slots and longer range and much less cap dependant
Alek Row
Silent Step
#667 - 2013-04-22 17:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alek Row
Naomi Knight wrote:
Everything


It's very difficult to not see you as a troll, and you surely do not make it easy.
Winmatar this winmatar that, really, even if you're right in some of your points, you clearly suffer from some sort of Minmatar obsession, all your posts reflect a sick vendetta against it.

Best weapons?
In which ships AFTER the tiericide do you think there is something wrong with the weapon system? Stabber? Or the Rupture with their op dual bonuses? Or maybe the Rifter?

I understand that after so many time in the top spot that we should be brought down, but buffing others on one side while letting others live in past or hammer them down is not my ideia of balance.

I'm tired of this discussions, **** the tiericide threads, I don't care anymore about slot layouts, ship bonuses, I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.

Balance is an illusion in EvE, they try their best, they may even accept some suggestions, but they already have their minds set in stone - which is also good since most of our ideias **** big time - and you will always have ships better than others.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#668 - 2013-04-22 20:30:25 UTC
i think the discussion about if matar is op or what the past roles of thypoon was is fruitless and not fruitfull for balance of BS in general.

the problem and flawas were analyzed plenty in this thread.
the solving approches though lacked some constructive structure.

i woul be happy to see ppl who have the experience and knowledge (who i have seen post here)
to discuss how to fix stuff rather than to argue about whos right on matters which are irelevant to the future of eve Bs balanceing.
id gladly do it myself but i lack experience and knowledge about BS sized ships, but id like to see them fixed so i could enjoy flying them myself.

thus i made a sugestion
Post
it didnt recive alot of feedback (here and in galente) thread thoug i see it as a nice idea.

i would be very happy to see it ( and the other good ideas) discussed rather then to read 5 pages of argueing about who knows better the past role of the typhoon....

maybee well get ccp to fix bs so that they fell like the ships bs should be
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#669 - 2013-04-22 21:30:00 UTC
Quote:
I'm tired of this discussions, **** the tiericide threads, I don't care anymore about slot layouts, ship bonuses, I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.


Agreed.

But in the end, it's CCPs game, not ours ;D.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#670 - 2013-04-23 07:57:44 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+2)


This means that Typhoon now will be The missile BS. Explosion velocity bonus is by far stronger than missile velocity, especially for Cruise Missiles.



Yes which means it makes the raven even more laughably horrible in comparison.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#671 - 2013-04-23 08:25:04 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+2)


This means that Typhoon now will be The missile BS. Explosion velocity bonus is by far stronger than missile velocity, especially for Cruise Missiles.



Yes which means it makes the raven even more laughably horrible in comparison.


LoL "especially for Cruise Missiles", Fury Cruise can fully apply to a BS without TP, you a funny man.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#672 - 2013-04-23 08:28:44 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+2)


This means that Typhoon now will be The missile BS. Explosion velocity bonus is by far stronger than missile velocity, especially for Cruise Missiles.



Yes which means it makes the raven even more laughably horrible in comparison.


LoL "especially for Cruise Missiles", Fury Cruise can fully apply to a BS without TP, you a funny man.



Current changes to cruise make them better than torps. Not only are they applying similar dps but able to hit even better.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#673 - 2013-04-23 08:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
Hagika wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity (replaces large projectile rate of fire)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 0 turrets(-4) , 6 launchers(+2)


This means that Typhoon now will be The missile BS. Explosion velocity bonus is by far stronger than missile velocity, especially for Cruise Missiles.



Yes which means it makes the raven even more laughably horrible in comparison.


LoL "especially for Cruise Missiles", Fury Cruise can fully apply to a BS without TP, you a funny man.

EDIT: Sorry Accidental double post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#674 - 2013-04-23 08:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Dont you think Maelstrom would deserve a little cpu buff? Just a little one. Straight
Its a kinda hard to fit spaceship compared to his brahs.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#675 - 2013-04-23 10:45:53 UTC
Alek Row wrote:
I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.

.



THAT! one HUNDRED BILLION TIMES!

Minmatar are not the drone race? OK. But gallente are not supposed to be faster than minmatar as well!


For god sake.. What is current racial identity in the freaking tempest vs Hyperion compare? Or Tempest vs Megatrhon.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#676 - 2013-04-23 11:29:30 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Alek Row wrote:
I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.

.



THAT! one HUNDRED BILLION TIMES!

Minmatar are not the drone race? OK. But gallente are not supposed to be faster than minmatar as well!

For god sake.. What is current racial identity in the freaking tempest vs Hyperion compare? Or Tempest vs Megatrhon.


The mega should be the quickest and most agile being the shortest range ship by some distance besides the Hyperion but the phoon is still the fastest ship especially as it can shield tank where as the mega has to be heavily plated killing its speed and agility and the Hype ends up more mobile than the mega.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#677 - 2013-04-23 12:09:52 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Alek Row wrote:
I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.

.



THAT! one HUNDRED BILLION TIMES!

Minmatar are not the drone race? OK. But gallente are not supposed to be faster than minmatar as well!


For god sake.. What is current racial identity in the freaking tempest vs Hyperion compare? Or Tempest vs Megatrhon.


they had to loosen up the identities, because they were somewhat flawed. for example gallente was supposed to be about armor brawling with blasters (complemented with drone boats). but having the gun with the shortest range, ships with average or worse speed and maneuverability and the kind of tank which slows you down even more was kind of a strange combination. hence they made gallente gun boats more agile and speedy. autocannons should have gotten the stats of blasters and the other way around. short range, high dmg without cap usage together with speedy hulls to get into the combat would have been the best concept for a weapon always to be used in neut and scram range. drawback should have been weak performance beyond scram range.

but it's to late for that. changing such fundamental game design in the second decade of a game. so they fine tune ship properties instead. gallente gun boats get more geared into beeing able to get into engangement range, while minmatar retains an upper hand in versatility, which is the deal between newMegathron and newTempest.
Even though Megathron looks now faster and more agile on paper than the tempest, an armor tanked megathorn will still be more sluggish than a shield (aka designed to be mobile) tempest. shield tanked megathron will be made of paper. armor tempest will be very versatile with lots of nasty mids to toss around.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#678 - 2013-04-23 12:11:25 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Alek Row wrote:
I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.

.



THAT! one HUNDRED BILLION TIMES!

Minmatar are not the drone race? OK. But gallente are not supposed to be faster than minmatar as well!

For god sake.. What is current racial identity in the freaking tempest vs Hyperion compare? Or Tempest vs Megatrhon.


The mega should be the quickest and most agile being the shortest range ship by some distance besides the Hyperion but the phoon is still the fastest ship especially as it can shield tank where as the mega has to be heavily plated killing its speed and agility and the Hype ends up more mobile than the mega.



That is NOT gallente identity! Minamtar identity is being the quickest! Gallente gain HUGE Dps advantage in exchange for their short range.. NOT SPEED!!

During ALl eve history minamtar role was havign less HP but more speed. I selected that race based on that. CCP keep screwing race identity. Minamtar should not have strong tankers.. they should GO AWAY.. and minmatar should be faster than gallente as they were supposed to be!


Say me.. what the damm tempest have over the 2 gallente blaster boats? NOTHING. The hyperion with MWD is faster than temepst with MWD, with more damage, mora tank, better slot layout, More drones. BEtter at EVERYTHING!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Alek Row
Silent Step
#679 - 2013-04-23 12:30:00 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

The mega should be the quickest and most agile being the shortest range ship by some distance (...)


This is a racial perk, if the Tempest would have +5 base speed would not make it unreachable.
The Mega is able to achieve higher speeds than the Tempest under MWD thanks to his mass.

The same way the Mega needs the speed to reach their targets when out ranged, Tempest also needs a way to try to increase the distance between them. Mega having ALL mobility stats in their side is not balanced.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#680 - 2013-04-23 12:31:13 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Alek Row wrote:
I only would like if CCP was able to maintain a minimum of racial identity between the different races. Drones per instance, it seems that after the tiericide no Minmatar battleship will be able to fit 5 heavies, that will be something for Gallente/Amarr only, which is not that bad, it can be acceptable IF on the speed front, you would not make a Gallente attack battleship faster, lighter and more agile than a Minmatar attack battleship.

.



THAT! one HUNDRED BILLION TIMES!

Minmatar are not the drone race? OK. But gallente are not supposed to be faster than minmatar as well!


For god sake.. What is current racial identity in the freaking tempest vs Hyperion compare? Or Tempest vs Megatrhon.


they had to loosen up the identities, because they were somewhat flawed. for example gallente was supposed to be about armor brawling with blasters (complemented with drone boats). but having the gun with the shortest range, ships with average or worse speed and maneuverability and the kind of tank which slows you down even more was kind of a strange combination. hence they made gallente gun boats more agile and speedy. autocannons should have gotten the stats of blasters and the other way around. short range, high dmg without cap usage together with speedy hulls to get into the combat would have been the best concept for a weapon always to be used in neut and scram range. drawback should have been weak performance beyond scram range.

but it's to late for that. changing such fundamental game design in the second decade of a game. so they fine tune ship properties instead. gallente gun boats get more geared into beeing able to get into engangement range, while minmatar retains an upper hand in versatility, which is the deal between newMegathron and newTempest.
Even though Megathron looks now faster and more agile on paper than the tempest, an armor tanked megathorn will still be more sluggish than a shield (aka designed to be mobile) tempest. shield tanked megathron will be made of paper. armor tempest will be very versatile with lots of nasty mids to toss around.


versatiliity? Lol You mean being useless? versatilily is just a polite way to say HORRIBLE! THis game is a game about specialization.

All the minmatar ships taht are successful are NOT VERSATILE!

Versatility is the shortest path to mediocricity



They should have given 3rd bonus to keep races identity. Give gallente a MWD speed bonus but with harder time turning. Perfect for blasters. Give minmatar a bonus for AB or for agility while MWD is on .

What they have now is screwed races identities that were among the best things in the game

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"