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New Player - some exemplary issues with the Eve Wiki

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Author
Woodstock-TC Kriegskind
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-04-22 16:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Woodstock-TC Kriegskind
J'Poll wrote:

CCP is and should be busy with the game and its expansions.


I think you very aware though that CCP is not a group of 2 happy free-time coders, but a commercial company, yes

1) why do you invest into an extension ? to please the crowd? ok. but what is the real reason to do it:
- to extend your product line, keep your customer base and if possible extend it.
its. an. investment. for new or continuing profit.

to do so you need a) managers b) designers c) architects d) coders e) qa f) some community managers (+ admin and some others i leave out now)


2) why do or should you extend your complex product documentation
- to provide means for new players to get hold of your product ie extending your customer base and market share

to do so you need a) ~1/2 manager b) a documentation professional. if possible with EVE background.

you notice that the work on your documentation can be done without hampering your extension. you achieve it by either placing active staff on it, or if the guys are already 100% assigned by calling your favorite head hunter and getting the guy(s) you need through hiring. even part time or with a limited contract if required.
you may notice, we still dont spend any more word about "community" whatsoever here than is involved creating the new extensions. we still talk about biz and investment decisions here to get hold of new players and/or keep existing players happy (which equals recurring revenue, the holy grail of the software world).

Both options (1) and (2) are valid to pull and neither (1) nor (2) will block the other if sufficient profit is being recognized (forecast is positive with x% mere profit). The continuous work on the quality of the tutorials and documentation throughout the last years seem to show that the problem and potential was recognized. One remains just wondering why its such a big deal to get the internal "go" for the missing bits improving the user experience. From my vp it looks like a commercial no-brainer to justify the investment especially since the company prepares to go IPO after DUST.

best,
kriegskind

// sic transit gloria mundi
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-04-22 17:54:58 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
We still arguing whose responsibility it is to keep the manual up to date?

It's obvious that CCP should put more effort into the wiki, or should entice players to contribute. But, they're busy with releasing DUST and Odyssey, and there is no rewards program, and ultimately we play for our own fun, rather than for the newbies.

I get a small amount of satisfaction from answering a few posts in the newbie forums, and I may update the odd wiki article if, say, I'm doing an exploration site and the corresponding article has no info in it, but otherwise there's nothing in it for me except wasted time.

You can see this sentiment in the quality of player corporations that you can find in-game. There are a few gems, but most of them suck or are NOT recruiting any more. Because the CEO and directors have to put in all their time to create fun and cater to all the newbies they recruit, who will then just leave, or worse (steal stuff and leave), so what's the point?

I apologize for the tone of my previous post, but you were calling on US to put in time and fix the evelopedia, and a couple posts later you expressed disinterest in putting in some of that time yourself. This attitude will be prevalent in this game, and I'm coming on strong now so that you're not shocked at just how much the playerbase will treat you as just another target to kill and loot in PVP, market competition, scam contracts, or other parts of the game.


The problem is, us players can not modify parts of the Wiki for some reason. If it shows a ship for example, you cant modify the data files of it, the Thorax for example.
Juraj Dobrila
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-04-22 18:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Juraj Dobrila
The "it's a wiki so you can't complain about it" argument doesn't work because CCP itself redirects to it constantly. Every tutorial blurb ends with "for more info, visit the wiki page". If they're going to officially sanction it to the point of using it as in-game reference for everyone, it's largely their responsibility to keep it updated.

dark heartt wrote:
I'd personally recommend the Eve University wiki as they have topic for beginners and advanced players.


EVE-U wiki is miles ahead of the official wiki but even it has some issues precisely because of the amount of different pages. Moving a few numbers in an article about a mining ship that suddenly became a logistics ship is is simple and obvious, but then hunting the wiki for every guide suggesting the now nonexistant ship to new miners...
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-04-22 18:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
I'm really getting fed up with you.

A.) You clearly didn't do the tutorials as they explain a lot about fittings.

B.) You clearly expect EVE to be like other MMOs in holding your hand every second.

C.) Because they don't do that, the game and it's developers are wrong. As are the players for not giving up their time to help lazy people like you.

So...

Don't expect help from me, and I normally am one of the most patient guys you can meet.

EDIT:


Just noticed you are 11 months old...thus reported this thread for a trolling attempt.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-04-22 18:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Woodstock-TC Kriegskind wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

CCP is and should be busy with the game and its expansions.


I think you very aware though that CCP is not a group of 2 happy free-time coders, but a commercial company, yes

1) why do you invest into an extension ? to please the crowd? ok. but what is the real reason to do it:
- to extend your product line, keep your customer base and if possible extend it.
its. an. investment. for new or continuing profit.

to do so you need a) managers b) designers c) architects d) coders e) qa f) some community managers (+ admin and some others i leave out now)


2) why do or should you extend your complex product documentation
- to provide means for new players to get hold of your product ie extending your customer base and market share

to do so you need a) ~1/2 manager b) a documentation professional. if possible with EVE background.

you notice that the work on your documentation can be done without hampering your extension. you achieve it by either placing active staff on it, or if the guys are already 100% assigned by calling your favorite head hunter and getting the guy(s) you need through hiring. even part time or with a limited contract if required.
you may notice, we still dont spend any more word about "community" whatsoever here than is involved creating the new extensions. we still talk about biz and investment decisions here to get hold of new players and/or keep existing players happy (which equals recurring revenue, the holy grail of the software world).

Both options (1) and (2) are valid to pull and neither (1) nor (2) will block the other if sufficient profit is being recognized (forecast is positive with x% mere profit). The continuous work on the quality of the tutorials and documentation throughout the last years seem to show that the problem and potential was recognized. One remains just wondering why its such a big deal to get the internal "go" for the missing bits improving the user experience. From my vp it looks like a commercial no-brainer to justify the investment especially since the company prepares to go IPO after DUST.

best,
kriegskind

// sic transit gloria mundi


And guess what. CCP has every available personal busy with stuff. And still they grow each year with new players coming to EVE.

You DO know that CCP is a small company. They aren't huge like Electronics Arts or other game companies out there. They are a very small company and thus don't have hundreds of employees they can just mess around with.

Maybe EVE is just the game for YOU....doesn't make CCP nor EVE wrong.


In before:

A.) Rage quit whining post within 3 months.

B.) Never hear from the person again, because he stopped playing quietly.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Woodstock-TC Kriegskind
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-04-22 20:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Woodstock-TC Kriegskind
just fyi im out of the discussion.
got through my thread here a bounty of 60.000.000 isk placed so far on this char and 10000k on another which can be rather annoying while i was still getting back into the game. thanks for showcasing some rather surprising but important aspects about the eve community. back to X3.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
kriegskind
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#27 - 2013-04-22 21:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Closest thing to an EVE manual, but it is also not up-to-date, as EVE changes a lot to keep things interesting:

Industrial-Size Knowledgebase (ISK)

EDIT: Bounties are meaningless. Don't let them bother you. Most of my characters have bounties, including ones that never undock.
Juraj Dobrila
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-04-23 10:12:24 UTC
And the population drops from 50k to 30k in a year.

10k actual players, 30k logged in characters, that is.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2013-04-23 13:02:38 UTC
I have removed some trolling from this thread.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#30 - 2013-04-23 15:00:21 UTC
Call Rollard wrote:

The problem is, us players can not modify parts of the Wiki for some reason. If it shows a ship for example, you cant modify the data files of it, the Thorax for example.


The reason for this is because that comes from the item database in-game so that can be only edited through the database. If you wanted to make a page about a ship in more detail you will need to make a new page.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

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Velarra
#31 - 2013-04-23 20:59:50 UTC
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