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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#641 - 2013-04-19 17:25:34 UTC
It's been well over a week and still not a word from Rise in any of these threads. What's going on? Is it too much to expect some kind of dev response to pages and pages of player ideas and concerns? Come on CCP, let's have a discussion and not a monologue.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Kaiden krios
Mangueireiros
#642 - 2013-04-20 03:38:43 UTC
I just here to say how sad i am right now to see what is being done with the Typhoon.

I have a Typhoon Navy, a i'm very proud of her. With this ship just learned how to play with missiles, drones and turrets., how to choose the correct weapon system, how to adapt to the situation and learn. And, the most important thing for me, i have much fun playing with her.

Many of my friends sayd all the time that i was making a mistake choosing this ship, but today i am one of the most proud pilots in New Eden just because i fly a Typhoon. In the future i will buy others BSs, and play with all of them, but one thing is certain, Typhoon was my real school of BSs.

Have a Maelstrom too, good tank, good sniper, but, not so fun like my Typhoon.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#643 - 2013-04-20 09:41:05 UTC
The typhoon at least will have a new role and a powerful one. Looses flafore surely ,but still has use. Tempest is a SLOW ATTAKC battleship. Its the 6 turret battleship that need 2 bonus to compensate that while hyperion gets special treatment and a single combined bonus.

THe 7 years already negligence on CCP part of redefining ans saving the tempest Identity is becoming stupid!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#644 - 2013-04-20 10:54:17 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The typhoon at least will have a new role and a powerful one. Looses flafore surely ,but still has use. Tempest is a SLOW ATTAKC battleship. Its the 6 turret battleship that need 2 bonus to compensate that while hyperion gets special treatment and a single combined bonus.

THe 7 years already negligence on CCP part of redefining ans saving the tempest Identity is becoming stupid!



The tempest has 2 options to become useful really.
- mini machariel give it a 5% falloff with shield tank although then you think about the tornado....
-Heavy armour tanker

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#645 - 2013-04-20 13:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The typhoon at least will have a new role and a powerful one. Looses flafore surely ,but still has use. Tempest is a SLOW ATTAKC battleship. Its the 6 turret battleship that need 2 bonus to compensate that while hyperion gets special treatment and a single combined bonus.

THe 7 years already negligence on CCP part of redefining ans saving the tempest Identity is becoming stupid!



The tempest has 2 options to become useful really.
- mini machariel give it a 5% falloff with shield tank although then you think about the tornado....
-Heavy armour tanker


The Tempest is perfectly useful as it is. I don't see the obsession with trying to pigeon hole everything. No one complained about the hurricane being able to shield and armour tank whilst having two utility high slots, quite the opposite, that was one of the most powerful ships in the game. So I don't see anything wrong with the Tempest's current layout. All it needs is perhaps some extra agility or more overall EHP. Personally I would go for more agility. Right now CCP Rise's proposal is looking extremely good to me.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
The typhoon at least will have a new role and a powerful one.


I'm surprised that you are complaining more about the Tempest than the Typhoon. The Typhoon is the ship which needs a rethink in my opinion, the Tempest is at least looking very minmatar at the moment.

Most the people I've seen here wanting a complete rework for the Tempest want to pigeon hole it into a slower, less powerful, and generally inferior version of the tornado. I say we keep it being the next ship in line to the old style hurricane, and then simply buff it more in that direction.
Kaiden krios
Mangueireiros
#646 - 2013-04-20 14:42:07 UTC
This is not a new role for the Typhoon, this is just... another Raven.

We are Minmatar, not Caldari, but in this moment half of our ships looks like copies of Caldari ships, losing turrets, the bonus for the turrets, just to use missile launchers only.

I play this game in 4 months, when i statert, the Minmatar ships are very Minmatar. And then, one day i saw my Hurricane nerfed, the Cyclone becoming a Drake (and other ships caldarized). Then moved to BSs, bounght a Typhoon, and again i will see the transformed into other thing, but this time is not nerfing, is changing a role, a role that exists, is called Raven!!

In this moment i think, it was a good idea to chose Minmatar? To see in every 3 months our ships becoming other thing? One day we will have what? A Maelstrom with 8 launchers? That will be funny... (or not)...
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#647 - 2013-04-20 15:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Kaiden krios wrote:
This is not a new role for the Typhoon, this is just... another Raven.

We are Minmatar, not Caldari, but in this moment half of our ships looks like copies of Caldari ships, losing turrets, the bonus for the turrets, just to use missile launchers only.

I play this game in 4 months, when i statert, the Minmatar ships are very Minmatar. And then, one day i saw my Hurricane nerfed, the Cyclone becoming a Drake (and other ships caldarized). Then moved to BSs, bounght a Typhoon, and again i will see the transformed into other thing, but this time is not nerfing, is changing a role, a role that exists, is called Raven!!

In this moment i think, it was a good idea to chose Minmatar? To see in every 3 months our ships becoming other thing? One day we will have what? A Maelstrom with 8 launchers? That will be funny... (or not)...

Agree , it is not just a raven but a better raven .
omg winmatar is still on , no wonder you have choosen matar

oh and still no fits from Liang so we can accept the fact that the typhoon is just superior to the raven, in nearly every scenario
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#648 - 2013-04-21 10:28:57 UTC
Tempest still needs a lot of work.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Sunuva Gunn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#649 - 2013-04-21 12:42:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunuva Gunn
Destructor1792 wrote:
I'm gonna be as polite as possible to CCP Rise but....


STOP MAKING MINMATAR SHIPS PURELY MISSILE BASED FFS!!!

If I want to fly a ship with missiles, I'll go Caldari.


Every race is gonna be exactly the same by the time you've finished!! Haven't you learnt from the past??

I posted earlier in this thread and I'll say it again..

You have 3 Ships - Make them:

  • One a Mid~Long Range Arty boat (Mael) (change the ROF bonus to affect Arty only)
  • One a Short~Mid range AC boat (Pest) (change the ROF & damage bonus to affect AC's only)
  • One a Utility boat (Phoon) (keep the missile & projectile ROF bonus, add a utility bonus for the other one)

    • Keep the split weapon bonus for the Phoon & give it back its drone bay as all it is under your "proposed" idea is a parred down version of the Raven.
    This lets us decide whether we want to fit it with guns or Missiles.
    Give it a bonus to remote rep range or something similar. Make it so people will actually want to use it & so it's useful in a gang (or fleet).

    It's still about one of the only ships (currently) where you don't really know how it's fit... That's what makes it UNIQUE and potentially dangerous when engaging one.

    And now Each ship now has a specific use & makes them ALL useful.

    /rant over.. coffee on standby

    **edit**

    Yep, I got out of bed the wrong side Evil


    Quoting this in-case CCP forget to read the original post. ^_^

    I'm still canceling my subscription if the Phoon goes Caldari. It's not a real rage-quit, theres just no point in wasting my time and money training up heavy-drone skills when my ship can no longer use heavy drones (and I've been playing other MMOs... so I'm feeling a bit lazy Eve-wise).
    Kane Fenris
    NWP
    #650 - 2013-04-21 13:44:02 UTC
    Hi,

    i read alot in minmatar and galente bs balance threads and i mybe came up with a soloution for the balance problem for the megatron and tempest BS.

    why dont give all the attack BS ships a role bonuslike :
    (values discussable)
    25% reduction of armor plate mass penalty
    25% reduction of shield equipment sig radius penalty

    of cours things would have to be rebalanced a bit but it would fix the problem that short ranged fast ships would be fast enough amor tanked while not beeing ridiciolus fast shield tanked.
    similar logic for tempest at shields cause sinature and speed is a big point of debate.

    so attack bs sould bee fast and skiny while armor or shield tanked wo creating any OP not intended fits.
    Sunuva Gunn
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #651 - 2013-04-21 16:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunuva Gunn
    Kane Fenris wrote:
    Hi,

    i read alot in minmatar and galente bs balance threads and i mybe came up with a soloution for the balance problem for the megatron and tempest BS.

    why dont give all the attack BS ships a role bonuslike :
    (values discussable)
    25% reduction of armor plate mass penalty
    25% reduction of shield equipment sig radius penalty

    of cours things would have to be rebalanced a bit but it would fix the problem that short ranged fast ships would be fast enough amor tanked while not beeing ridiciolus fast shield tanked.
    similar logic for tempest at shields cause sinature and speed is a big point of debate.

    so attack bs sould bee fast and skiny while armor or shield tanked wo creating any OP not intended fits.


    Sounds pretty good. It would need to be run through the wringer, just to check for unseen potential abuses and balance issues, but it looks good to me.
    Gal'o Sengen
    Doomheim
    #652 - 2013-04-21 19:58:28 UTC
    I've been toying with some Cruise Missile Typhoon fits and... Boy, it's a damn beast. For reference, the point of it all is a small (4-5 person), really cheap gang with large amounts of mobility.

    One or two Cruise Typhoons, a handful of Bellicose with Painters and RLML's, and a Sabre or two for tackle. The idea is to gank and bail quick as possible.

    Neut
    6 Cruise Launchers

    XL ASB
    100mn MWD
    LSE
    2x Invuln

    DCU
    3x BCU
    2x Nanofiber Internal Structure
    Co-pro II

    4x Ogre II's

    EM screen and two extender rigs.

    With Zor's Custom Nagivation Hyperlink (only about 20m) it goes 1425m/s, or 2041 heated. Add in links and it gets silly. Since you have Bellicose and an Explosion Velocity bonus, i figure you can get away with using Fury missiles. In which case roughly 870 DPS before heat. Not exactly a Vindicator, but i figure that's pretty good considering it can spit it 130km away.

    The tank seems weak for a Battleship, but in reality the ship isn't so much a BS as it is an overgrown Battlecruiser. I couldn't really get a truly "battleship" tank out of it, even armor tanking it, so i decided to slap on an ASB to add some more to the buffer.

    At the very least, it's going to be damn fun to fly, and if worst comes to worst, the entire gang costs less than one T3.Lol
    Sunuva Gunn
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #653 - 2013-04-21 20:28:41 UTC
    Gal'o Sengen wrote:
    I've been toying with some Cruise Missile Typhoon fits and... Boy, it's a damn beast. For reference, the point of it all is a small (4-5 person), really cheap gang with large amounts of mobility.


    This isn't being argued. We know it's a powerful ship... It's just... More Caldari than Minnie.

    Many of us would rather have it as it was.
    Pesadel0
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #654 - 2013-04-22 09:13:22 UTC
    Sunuva Gunn wrote:
    Gal'o Sengen wrote:
    I've been toying with some Cruise Missile Typhoon fits and... Boy, it's a damn beast. For reference, the point of it all is a small (4-5 person), really cheap gang with large amounts of mobility.


    This isn't being argued. We know it's a powerful ship... It's just... More Caldari than Minnie.

    Many of us would rather have it as it was.



    Or grasp leave the drone bay alone?
    Garresh
    Mackies Raiders
    Wild Geese.
    #655 - 2013-04-22 09:43:20 UTC
    Pesadel0 wrote:
    Sunuva Gunn wrote:
    Gal'o Sengen wrote:
    I've been toying with some Cruise Missile Typhoon fits and... Boy, it's a damn beast. For reference, the point of it all is a small (4-5 person), really cheap gang with large amounts of mobility.


    This isn't being argued. We know it's a powerful ship... It's just... More Caldari than Minnie.

    Many of us would rather have it as it was.



    Or grasp leave the drone bay alone?


    Or that. If we go pure missiles then drop 1 launcher point to give back our old drone bay. Feels more minmatar that way. It actually weakens our damage output overall, but then we get some utility to compensate.

    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #656 - 2013-04-22 10:34:59 UTC
    Sunuva Gunn wrote:
    Gal'o Sengen wrote:
    I've been toying with some Cruise Missile Typhoon fits and... Boy, it's a damn beast. For reference, the point of it all is a small (4-5 person), really cheap gang with large amounts of mobility.


    This isn't being argued. We know it's a powerful ship... It's just... More Caldari than Minnie.

    Many of us would rather have it as it was.



    What I want to know is what they will do with torpedoes. If they boost torpedoes base range a bit then I will be ok.

    But I Still thik the agility and signature of tempest and typhoon are swaped. Look at them side by side.. wich one looks more massive? Its obviously the typhoon

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #657 - 2013-04-22 10:38:21 UTC
    Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
    Jonas Sukarala wrote:
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    The typhoon at least will have a new role and a powerful one. Looses flafore surely ,but still has use. Tempest is a SLOW ATTAKC battleship. Its the 6 turret battleship that need 2 bonus to compensate that while hyperion gets special treatment and a single combined bonus.

    THe 7 years already negligence on CCP part of redefining ans saving the tempest Identity is becoming stupid!



    The tempest has 2 options to become useful really.
    - mini machariel give it a 5% falloff with shield tank although then you think about the tornado....
    -Heavy armour tanker


    The Tempest is perfectly useful as it is. I don't see the obsession with trying to pigeon hole everything. No one complained about the hurricane being able to shield and armour tank whilst having two utility high slots, quite the opposite, that was one of the most powerful ships in the game. So I don't see anything wrong with the Tempest's current layout. All it needs is perhaps some extra agility or more overall EHP. Personally I would go for more agility. Right now CCP Rise's proposal is looking extremely good to me.

    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    The typhoon at least will have a new role and a powerful one.


    I'm surprised that you are complaining more about the Tempest than the Typhoon. The Typhoon is the ship which needs a rethink in my opinion, the Tempest is at least looking very minmatar at the moment.

    Most the people I've seen here wanting a complete rework for the Tempest want to pigeon hole it into a slower, less powerful, and generally inferior version of the tornado. I say we keep it being the next ship in line to the old style hurricane, and then simply buff it more in that direction.



    On the very contrary. The ptyphoon looks veery minmatar. Speed ship spitting missiles. That was the typhoon role for 90% of its time in eve.

    The temepst althoug is PATHETIC. Its less agile, less damage, more mass, worse slot layout worse bonuses than the COMBAT gallente battleship.


    Tempest as of now is useles.

    Why things need to be pingionholed a bit? Because especialization defeats generalization ALWAYS.


    Jack of all trades, master of none, results in an useless ship. Because when you undock you have a plan and you want to focus on a ship capability. If you do not have that plan then you are a failure and should nto undock. Jack of all trades do not help good players at all!

    Thye typhoon now is great. It just could have the old drone bay back...

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Naomi Knight
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #658 - 2013-04-22 11:04:04 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:


    On the very contrary. The ptyphoon looks veery minmatar. Speed ship spitting missiles. That was the typhoon role for 90% of its time in eve.

    The temepst althoug is PATHETIC. Its less agile, less damage, more mass, worse slot layout worse bonuses than the COMBAT gallente battleship.


    Tempest as of now is useles.

    Why things need to be pingionholed a bit? Because especialization defeats generalization ALWAYS.


    Jack of all trades, master of none, results in an useless ship. Because when you undock you have a plan and you want to focus on a ship capability. If you do not have that plan then you are a failure and should nto undock. Jack of all trades do not help good players at all!

    Thye typhoon now is great. It just could have the old drone bay back...


    the only minmatar thing about the typhoon is that it is superior to the other similar ships aka the raven
    and that it has op ship stats super low sig super fast ...

    tempest is yeah pathetic for a minmatar ship as it doesnt seem much better than apoc /mega, it needs a huge boost to be the dominant ship for the dominant race , something like 6 mid 6 low and 125/200 drone bay and 10% dmg+5%rof /lvl
    now that would be awesome and minmatary

    yes jack of all trades are minmatar , master of all too , no wonder why matars dont like the balanced tempest, because when you undock you have a plan that you can kill or run nomatar what the enemy flies , if you dont have superior ship you are a failure and should nto undock. Jack of all trades only good if it helps me still be better than specialized ones in their role.
    WANT MY MATAR SHIPS BOOSTED
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #659 - 2013-04-22 11:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
    Naomi Knight wrote:
    Kagura Nikon wrote:


    On the very contrary. The ptyphoon looks veery minmatar. Speed ship spitting missiles. That was the typhoon role for 90% of its time in eve.

    The temepst althoug is PATHETIC. Its less agile, less damage, more mass, worse slot layout worse bonuses than the COMBAT gallente battleship.


    Tempest as of now is useles.

    Why things need to be pingionholed a bit? Because especialization defeats generalization ALWAYS.


    Jack of all trades, master of none, results in an useless ship. Because when you undock you have a plan and you want to focus on a ship capability. If you do not have that plan then you are a failure and should nto undock. Jack of all trades do not help good players at all!

    Thye typhoon now is great. It just could have the old drone bay back...


    the only minmatar thing about the typhoon is that it is superior to the other similar ships aka the raven
    and that it has op ship stats super low sig super fast ...

    tempest is yeah pathetic for a minmatar ship as it doesnt seem much better than apoc /mega, it needs a huge boost to be the dominant ship for the dominant race , something like 6 mid 6 low and 125/200 drone bay and 10% dmg+5%rof /lvl
    now that would be awesome and minmatary

    yes jack of all trades are minmatar , master of all too , no wonder why matars dont like the balanced tempest, because when you undock you have a plan that you can kill or run nomatar what the enemy flies , if you dont have superior ship you are a failure and should nto undock. Jack of all trades only good if it helps me still be better than specialized ones in their role.
    WANT MY MATAR SHIPS BOOSTED


    Dude you are already annoying. All that you do in forums is spew that crap about winmatar. You already sound like a sore looser that is unable to fight using your skills and created apersonal vendatta against an internet spaceship line just to solve your personality issues.

    You are even posting with a character that NEVER EVER made a single PVP kill!


    You clearly have no knowledge of eve history or classical races roles. And neither is capable of seeing t hat in last 1 year there is a New most powertul race.. and its not the minmatar .


    Typhoons role salways was of missile boat with support of drones. Only durign a spmall period of eve hsitory people dared to fit projectiles, because of the boost they received. But the iconic typhoon always was and always will be a Missile boat with good speed. The only thing it lost identity wise are the drones... that on my opinion should be returned.


    About it being better than rave. Check the damm slot layout and stop trying to use the on same role. Raven is very powerful now even an absurd as if you check its speed its completely non caldari style, its more agile than anythign but the typhoon and megatron (if my memory serves me right)

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Naomi Knight
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #660 - 2013-04-22 11:39:26 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:


    Dude you are already annoying. All that you do in forums is spew that crap about winmatar. You already sound like a sore looser that is unable to fight using your skills and created apersonal vendatta against an internet spaceship line just to solve your personality issues.

    You are even posting with a character that NEVER EVER made a single PVP kill!


    You clearly have no knowledge of eve history or classical races roles. And neither is capable of seeing t hat in last 1 year there is a New most powertul race.. and its not the minmatar .


    Typhoons role salways was of missile boat with support of drones. Only durign a spmall period of eve hsitory people dared to fit projectiles, because of the boost they received. But the iconic typhoon always was and always will be a Missile boat with good speed. The only thing it lost identity wise are the drones... that on my opinion should be returned.


    About it being better than rave. Check the damm slot layout and stop trying to use the on same role. Raven is very powerful now even an absurd as if you check its speed its completely non caldari style, its more agile than anythign but the typhoon and megatron (if my memory serves me right)

    it annoys you cause you want opmatar,
    no pvp kill omg so relevant:P

    "You clearly have no knowledge of eve history or classical races roles."
    okay here is what matar originally was : fast small cheaper , with lot of fitting capabilty ships with poor hp,crappy guns to balance it out, and 2nd most drones and missiles to support their crappy projectile guns ,and very sp hungry+utility high/med slots
    atm winmatar is: fast small, same hp , best guns , and no drawbacks to balance it out , lots of whinematar qq resulted in this imbalance , so maybe i know more about minmatar than you do, just say 1 drawback minmatar has just 1

    "And neither is capable of seeing t hat in last 1 year there is a New most powertul race.. and its not the minmatar ."
    that cleary cant be caldari , hmm cant see amarr in that position too at subcap , gallente hmm dunno still not as good as matar
    oh yes and what remains is winmatar cause minmatar is so last year

    typhoon was never a missile boat, 4 launcers +4 turrets both bonused and 125m3 drones ,yeah thats split weapon not missile boat

    what same role? i tried them for different roles and typhoon is superior in nearly all ,
    raven non caldari style , yes having a non sucky ship other than blob fight is not caldari at all, so why it id crappier than the typhoon in every other regards than slot layout? 1 supposed to be armor tanker 1 shield tanker ,but hey nothing says you cant shield tank the typhoon