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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

First post First post First post
Author
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1621 - 2013-04-19 16:21:47 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
The battleships are now on Duality.

Oh, so, that's what the CCP's answer to us? "Chew your meal with mouth closed"?


Pretty much. After a quick flail, the Armageddon is, as feared, MASSIVELY dangerous.

37.5km sphere of Neuting death.



GG CCP.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Naso Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1622 - 2013-04-19 16:22:18 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Being able to NOS/nuet someone at nearly 40km, in a reasonably quick attack BS, with drones as your primary weapon and pulse lasers or missiles as your secondary weapons system (or all nuets)... really, you can't think of how that works together?

I don't have an issue with someone not understanding how to fight with NOS/Nuet equipped ships, but to make a blanket statement that NOS/Nuet range is useless is highly amusing. Smile

The ship is borderline over powered. The only thing that keeps it from going over the top is the fact that its a range bonuses instead of an amount bonus.


Just want to clarify, only the Minmatar have two attack ships. The Armageddon is a Combat BS, not Attack.
Pathogen Ascention
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1623 - 2013-04-19 16:30:02 UTC
Seeing as my last post apparently never made it into the thread, I guess I'll just state what many others have already said:

1. As far as resists on the Abaddon, they need to stay at the current 5% per level. The ship was underbalanced overall to begin with due to fitting. I'm not saying that you can't fit it properly with skills, just that compared to other races it was not up to par in that respect. A fitting/pg/cap fix would be nice, but the resist needs to stay. The Abaddon is meant to have great resist bonuses and decent damage, and the 5% resist nerf is bad form. *I realize that it is nerf across the board to all classes, but seriously this nerf was terrible to begin with.

2. A BS level drone boat sounds ok, but did anyone really want that for Amarr?

3. Neut/NOS BS for Amarr seems silly. Or, changing an existing hull to this seems silly at least.

What I'm getting at mainly is that the existing Amarr ships being changed in such an extreme fashion is a terrible change. Ship roles for Amarr could have a bit done to them in QoL changes, but the proposed changes seem like they were shotgunned out for us. The resist bonus change is awful. On the other hand, fixing large turrets is a step in the right direction so far. Fitting doesn't need to be made easy, but we should be able to at least fit our big guns without ridiculous amounts of mods to PG/cap. Oh, and once again I'll state that the Abaddon's resist bonus nerf is a bad idea. It's meant to have staying power, meaning a large tank. Look at individual ships, blanket changes are never a good idea.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1624 - 2013-04-19 16:32:20 UTC
Naso Aya wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Being able to NOS/nuet someone at nearly 40km, in a reasonably quick attack BS, with drones as your primary weapon and pulse lasers or missiles as your secondary weapons system (or all nuets)... really, you can't think of how that works together?

I don't have an issue with someone not understanding how to fight with NOS/Nuet equipped ships, but to make a blanket statement that NOS/Nuet range is useless is highly amusing. Smile

The ship is borderline over powered. The only thing that keeps it from going over the top is the fact that its a range bonuses instead of an amount bonus.


Just want to clarify, only the Minmatar have two attack ships. The Armageddon is a Combat BS, not Attack.

Good catch, thank you. I was typing while distracted, always a bad combo. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1625 - 2013-04-19 16:37:08 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
The battleships are now on Duality.

Oh, so, that's what the CCP's answer to us? "Chew your meal with mouth closed"?


Pretty much. After a quick flail, the Armageddon is, as feared, MASSIVELY dangerous.

37.5km sphere of Neuting death.



GG CCP.


I'm stuck at work for the time being, which is unfortunate.

What fits were you trying? All Neuts?

If so, how did fittings go... and how did your cap hold up?

I'm really curious on this one, as it can be fit so many different ways.

(By the way, you might explain this in more detail for those that think Neuts are useless.) Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1626 - 2013-04-19 16:45:39 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bhaalgorn ?
Nossing NPC is useless, they only have 1GJ cap, or some other stupid amount, it seems.
By situational I mean you won't take it onto every battle.

A Bhaalgorn will perform completely differently from the new geddon in combat. Different bonuses, and different capabilities.

Every ship in EvE is situational then. I'm not seeing your point.

I don't care about difference. It is the same argument that "ECM range is different from ECM strength". Why don't we have two ships with these bonuses separate?
If you have issues with Bhaalgorn performance - bring that to Bhaalgorn.

Ranger 1 wrote:
(By the way, you might explain this in more detail for those that think Neuts are useless.) Big smile

I don't think neuts are useless, I think that ololopvp'ers should not be allowed to touch gameplay and balance of the EVE.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Loki Vice
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1627 - 2013-04-19 16:52:43 UTC
Captains Log Day 7: Morale is wearing thin, crew mates are at each others throats, where is CCP Kil2? has he abandoned us completely? Signs point to yes...
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1628 - 2013-04-19 16:52:57 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:

Pelea, you seem to be a troll and I won't reply further to your comments.

lols, I'm the troll? You can't even 'speak' properly half of whatever you may be trying to make a point of is lost because of your broken english, and when I try to realistically respond to what little point does come across, I'm a troll? Go back and read the entire thread again.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1629 - 2013-04-19 16:56:11 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bhaalgorn ?
Nossing NPC is useless, they only have 1GJ cap, or some other stupid amount, it seems.
By situational I mean you won't take it onto every battle.

A Bhaalgorn will perform completely differently from the new geddon in combat. Different bonuses, and different capabilities.

Every ship in EvE is situational then. I'm not seeing your point.

I don't care about difference. It is the same argument that "ECM range is different from ECM strength". Why don't we have two ships with these bonuses separate?
If you have issues with Bhaalgorn performance - bring that to Bhaalgorn.

Ranger 1 wrote:
(By the way, you might explain this in more detail for those that think Neuts are useless.) Big smile

I don't think neuts are useless, I think that ololopvp'ers should not be allowed to touch gameplay and balance of the EVE.

You contended that we already have such a ship in the Amarr line. When I pointed out how different they are in capabiity and style of combat, your response is "I don't care about difference." Big smileBig smileBig smile
By the way, no, I don't have a problem with the Bhaalgorn. It's a great ship that fits it's role very well indeed. Your simply trying to deflect the conversation away from the fact that you don't actually have a point.

As to your assertion that developers, with a very strong background in EvE PVP, shouldn't have a hand in balancing combat vessels is perhaps the most innane comment I've seen in a very long time.

Who then "should" guide this effort? A player with extremely limited experience in PVP in general, and no verifiable experience with BS combat in particular?

Your posts got better for a while after you got called on this sort of nonsense, but now you're devolving into troll posts again.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1630 - 2013-04-19 16:58:44 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
The battleships are now on Duality.

Oh, so, that's what the CCP's answer to us? "Chew your meal with mouth closed"?


Pretty much. After a quick flail, the Armageddon is, as feared, MASSIVELY dangerous.

37.5km sphere of Neuting death.



GG CCP.


I'm stuck at work for the time being, which is unfortunate.

What fits were you trying? All Neuts?

If so, how did fittings go... and how did your cap hold up?

I'm really curious on this one, as it can be fit so many different ways.

(By the way, you might explain this in more detail for those that think Neuts are useless.) Big smile



Cap lasts 1 minute 15 seconds, with 3 cap rigs (2x cap increase, 1x cap size) and a cap recharger, with 7 Heavy Neut II's

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1631 - 2013-04-19 17:00:31 UTC
PvP is not everything that is EVE. I'm saying this clear, because you, apparently, missed this point.
If you think, that only frag count matters, I'd rather stop reading your responces to save us both time and frustration.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1632 - 2013-04-19 17:02:03 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
The battleships are now on Duality.

Oh, so, that's what the CCP's answer to us? "Chew your meal with mouth closed"?


Pretty much. After a quick flail, the Armageddon is, as feared, MASSIVELY dangerous.

37.5km sphere of Neuting death.



GG CCP.


I'm stuck at work for the time being, which is unfortunate.

What fits were you trying? All Neuts?

If so, how did fittings go... and how did your cap hold up?

I'm really curious on this one, as it can be fit so many different ways.

(By the way, you might explain this in more detail for those that think Neuts are useless.) Big smile



Cap lasts 1 minute 15 seconds, with 3 cap rigs (2x cap increase, 1x cap size) and a cap recharger, with 7 Heavy Neut II's

Interesting, and thanks!

Were you able to mount much of a tank with that?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1633 - 2013-04-19 17:03:28 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
PvP is not everything that is EVE. I'm saying this clear, because you, apparently, missed this point.
If you think, that only frag count matters, I'd rather stop reading your responces to save us both time and frustration.

Feel free. In return you can restrict yourself to comments that pertain to something you actually know something about. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1634 - 2013-04-19 17:06:01 UTC
Ranger 1 - I could mount the standard 3xEANM II / 1xDC II - tank was around the 66k mark.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1635 - 2013-04-19 17:19:23 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
PvP is not everything that is EVE. I'm saying this clear, because you, apparently, missed this point.
If you think, that only frag count matters, I'd rather stop reading your responces to save us both time and frustration.

Feel free. In return you can restrict yourself to comments that pertain to something you actually know something about. Blink

I don't comment on things I don't know.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#1636 - 2013-04-19 17:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Apostrof Ahashion
Ranger 1 wrote:

Being able to NOS/nuet someone at nearly 40km, in a reasonably quick attack BS, with drones as your primary weapon and pulse lasers or missiles as your secondary weapons system (or all nuets)... really, you can't think of how that works together?

I don't have an issue with someone not understanding how to fight with NOS/Nuet equipped ships, but to make a blanket statement that NOS/Nuet range is useless is highly amusing. Smile

The ship is borderline over powered. The only thing that keeps it from going over the top is the fact that its a range bonuses instead of an amount bonus.

In fleet ops that range is not nearly big enough to make a difference, and " reasonably quick attack BS" is pure bullshit, every battleship is slow as a brick and Armageddon is the slowest one of the "attack" line, not counting tier 3 the slowest of the bunch. And its armor tanked so yeah.

I never said neuts are useless, or even that the bonus is useless, just that it is really really situational. So give an realistic engagement example that is gonna happen more than 3 times next year where the 18km range bonus will be significant advantage. This ship can not do the same things the Curse does great.

Quote:
The only thing that keeps it from going over the top is the fact that its a range bonuses instead of an amount bonus

And the only thing keeping Apocalypse from being a good ship is it has optimal bonus on lasers and not damage.

And one more time so you dont go into your loop about awesomeness of neuts - no one is saying that neuts are useless and no one is talking about the neuts themselves, its about the hull bonus.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1637 - 2013-04-19 17:39:02 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Whilst I agree with your conclusions you need to be aware that you are comparing cruisers and battlecruisers, a better comparison would have been an omen and caracal, battlecruisers are obviously going to be more capable because they have more power grid, cpu and slots than a cruisr. However i do agree with the thrust of your argument.


Thanks for agreeing with me. But I do think my comparison of cruiser and battlecruiser here is spot on. Wny? Because, intuitively speaking, difficulty to fit and fly a ship should go UP as you go up the ship tree, not DOWN, right?

Think about it. Frigates are the first ships noobs get into. They aren't particularly difficult to fit or fly, otherwise noobs wouldn't be flying. However, noobs can't fly Titans. This seems to be a correct mechanic.

Now, I could fit and fly a caldari battlecruiser better than I could fit and fly an amarr omen, and I've actually trained some skills in amarr.

Now do you get my comparison?


My experience of it is the opposite, bigger ships are easier to fit, high skils help though, so do implants, though after these changes that might not be the case for amarr ships. Hint 102% of power grid to fit tachyons.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1638 - 2013-04-19 17:52:18 UTC
Quote:
My experience of it is the opposite, bigger ships are easier to fit, high skils help though, so do implants, though after these changes that might not be the case for amarr ships. Hint 102% of power grid to fit tachyons.


This is not really the case. Frigates *can* be difficult at first, but once you get a handle of the upper bounds of their fitting (they aren't going to fit 1600mm plates for example) then it is really quite easy to fit Frigates. They also tend to not have much in the way of experimentation available to them, they are typically bonused as such to boot. Lots of ways to skin a cat, but only one way to fit a Punisher, as they say.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#1639 - 2013-04-19 18:21:08 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Theia Matova wrote:

Pelea, you seem to be a troll and I won't reply further to your comments.

lols, I'm the troll? You can't even 'speak' properly half of whatever you may be trying to make a point of is lost because of your broken english, and when I try to realistically respond to what little point does come across, I'm a troll? Go back and read the entire thread again.


Fine I am surprised CCP does not take forum moderation more serious you already called me several times with offending names plus your corporation name is highly suggestive. Yes I might have a broken sentence but at least I respect other people who give out healthy critisism and who actually care to read what another says before replying to them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1640 - 2013-04-19 18:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
Fine I am surprised CCP does not take forum moderation more serious you already called me several times with offending names plus your corporation name is highly suggestive. Yes I might have a broken sentence but at least I respect other people who give out healthy critisism and who actually care to read what another says before replying to them.


Pelea is among the sane people in this thread. Get along, everyone.

And if someone has genuinely called you something hurtful, try to remember that we are (theoretically) adults and that no adult has ever died from hurt feelings, before you call someone out on the forums. And God knows we all need to think before the report button gets hit, to boot.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.