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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#621 - 2013-04-16 21:58:23 UTC
May Ke wrote:

You have also given the Minmatar 3 Attack Battleships, in your own words, so where is our alternative?


The Maelstrom is not going to be an attack BS, so we are only getting two, which is actually a good thing as the combat version of the Tempest sucked.

CCP Rise wrote:
You keep nerfing Minmatar ships, are you trying to make up for that projectile weapons buff a few years back?


Have to agree with this, I think if projectiles need a nerf then do that, but don't nerf the whole line of minmatar ships. If it is projectiles which are too strong then deal with that first. But I guess with tiericide that logical approach isn't going to happen.
Felix Crusher
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#622 - 2013-04-17 08:51:01 UTC
I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#623 - 2013-04-17 11:10:44 UTC
Felix Crusher wrote:
I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again.


1400mm arties use much more powergrid than ANYTHIGN but tachyons.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#624 - 2013-04-17 11:16:50 UTC
Felix Crusher wrote:
I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again.

Yes it is bizzare , especially as the mael is shield tanked.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#625 - 2013-04-17 13:18:07 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Felix Crusher wrote:
I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again.

Yes it is bizzare , especially as the mael is shield tanked.



Selective view much of you (well that would be as saying that the Pope is biased towards religion).

The lasers are gettign PG usage nerf, now things are pretty close to 1400mm PG usage.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#626 - 2013-04-17 18:04:29 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Felix Crusher wrote:
I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again.


1400mm arties use much more powergrid than ANYTHIGN but tachyons.


Which is the Amarr equivalent which was his point to begin with. The Mael shield tanks and the Abaddon armor tanks which again takes more PG which was also someone else's point.
Cutlass Claire
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#627 - 2013-04-17 20:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutlass Claire
Will the changes to the Typhoon also be implemented on the Typhoon Fleet Issue?

Cause that will be one hell of a nice ship to fly with the planned cruise missile changes Big smile

edit: bying one just in case, seem kinda cheapish atm
Kurron
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#628 - 2013-04-17 21:34:54 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Kinda sad how few people are defending the old typhoon. We really need some feedback from CCP Rise on what's gonna happen. I really want to see minmatar keep at least one utility battleship.


That's because the new Typhoon is just better than the old one. Not more powerful, note, but better - filling a role that didn't exist before.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#629 - 2013-04-18 01:54:53 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Was just thinking of how the new ship progression would work, and I think it would be great for Rise to model any further tweaks to the Tempest on being the bigger brother to the Hurricane.

Right now the Tempest is already a lot of the old hurricane we all loved and also the current navy issue one which is being returned. They both have the two utility high slots, great projectile damage application, ability to be shield or armour tanked, and also the ability to be auto or artillery fit.

I think if we can get a sort of bigger brother version to the hurricane then that will make a lot of sense and will become a ship which everyone will really love.

That way we could have a missile and drone line of ships, and then a fast attack projectile line of ships.

Breacher > Talwar > Bellicose > Cyclone > Typhoon

Rifter > Thrasher > Stabber > Hurricane > Tempest

That would make a lot of sense if the ship progression went something like that.


Not exactly. There are or will be two missile ship lines:

Breacher - Talwar - Cyclone - Typhoon.

The Talwar and Typhoon are odd balls in this line-up. The Typhoon would be a shield booster if it followed the path exactly.

The next missile line is the ewar line.
Vigil - Bellicose. The Hyena, Rapier, and Huginn should eventually fit here.

The projectile line I would have the Rupture rather then the Stabber in that lineup. Fast attack is more:

Slasher - Stabber - Vagabond
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#630 - 2013-04-18 01:58:31 UTC
wtf, making useless minmatard ship, i recommend to think it twice.
Sparkus Volundar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#631 - 2013-04-18 10:50:36 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Typhoon:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500(+289) / 6000(+531) / 6000(-211)


I think the Typhoon currently has 6211 armour like it has for hull.

That's based on out-of-game sources at the moment so could be inacurrate I guess.

.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#632 - 2013-04-18 11:09:01 UTC
so after these BS balancing there is no more cheap smart bomb bs.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#633 - 2013-04-18 12:04:13 UTC
So will be the typhoon nerfed to be more in line with the raven?
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#634 - 2013-04-18 12:55:26 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
So will be the typhoon nerfed to be more in line with the raven?


Not to nerf but to differentiate phoon from raven, I believe (as many have suggested) -1 launcher and old drone bay would be in order. Similar to Drake/Cyclone difference. Less launchers, more drones and more utility.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#635 - 2013-04-18 13:20:05 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
So will be the typhoon nerfed to be more in line with the raven?


Not to nerf but to differentiate phoon from raven, I believe (as many have suggested) -1 launcher and old drone bay would be in order. Similar to Drake/Cyclone difference. Less launchers, more drones and more utility.

or that , as currently it is just superior to the raven , maybe torp change will change that but i dont think so
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#636 - 2013-04-19 04:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Wrayeth
An interesting way to handle it would be to halve (yes, halve) the flight time or velocity (or some combination of the two) of torpedos as they stand now, then double the Raven's missile velocity bonus. This makes the Typhoon focus on short range combat, while the Raven maintains the Caldari racial philosphy of "shoot your opponents from a range at which they can't return fire."

EDIT: This would also require modifying stealth bombers.

EDIT #2: This would also result in Minmatar having one fast kiting ship (the Tempest, though its speed and damage could use an increase) and one fast brawling ship (the Typhoon). This should provide more differentiation between the two than "one uses missiles, the other uses guns."
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#637 - 2013-04-19 04:25:50 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Deerin wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
So will be the typhoon nerfed to be more in line with the raven?


Not to nerf but to differentiate phoon from raven, I believe (as many have suggested) -1 launcher and old drone bay would be in order. Similar to Drake/Cyclone difference. Less launchers, more drones and more utility.

or that , as currently it is just superior to the raven , maybe torp change will change that but i dont think so


I was looking at that. I don't think the Phoon is actually superior to the Raven. It can't get the same raw DPS without making much larger EHP sacrifices.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#638 - 2013-04-19 07:22:58 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


I was looking at that. I don't think the Phoon is actually superior to the Raven. It can't get the same raw DPS without making much larger EHP sacrifices.

-Liang


:O

how did u manage that ?are u armor tanking the typhoon or not?
stranglely for me all typhoon's fit are just superior to the raven's
similar ehp with more drones and better ewar slightly slower , and super small sig radius which makes it tankier than the raven
or
way faster with still more drones and less ehp yeah for kiting

i cant see where the raven would have the upper hand , maybe 150km+ but nobody fights there and that wont change
ive already bought myself 10 typhoons:P

pls show us fits for both
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#639 - 2013-04-19 14:29:35 UTC
WTF,

You ruined my typhoon.

I actually didn't mind the loss of turret slots, 6 launchers is ok, considering you no longer need to stack both types of damage mods.

But why change the drones?? One of the biggest selling features for the typhoon was its ability to use 5 sentry drones, 125 drone bandwidth. if you want to reduce its drone capabilities give it 125/125 then you have to decide between a full flight of sentrys or drop one for a flight of light drones. Why is minmatar now the only race that does not have a battleship that can have a full flight of 5 sentry or heavy drones?? WTF are you thinking? The old typhoon could be fit for up to 1400 DPS short range using all three weapon systems, now it is no better than the dam noob raven. Give me back my 5 sentry drones.
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#640 - 2013-04-19 16:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Destructor1792
I'm gonna be as polite as possible to CCP Rise but....


STOP MAKING MINMATAR SHIPS PURELY MISSILE BASED FFS!!!

If I want to fly a ship with missiles, I'll go Caldari.


Every race is gonna be exactly the same by the time you've finished!! Haven't you learnt from the past??

I posted earlier in this thread and I'll say it again..

You have 3 Ships - Make them:

  • One a Mid~Long Range Arty boat (Mael) (change the ROF bonus to affect Arty only)
  • One a Short~Mid range AC boat (Pest) (change the ROF & damage bonus to affect AC's only)
  • One a Utility boat (Phoon) (keep the missile & projectile ROF bonus, add a utility bonus for the other one)

    • Keep the split weapon bonus for the Phoon & give it back its drone bay as all it is under your "proposed" idea is a parred down version of the Raven.
    This lets us decide whether we want to fit it with guns or Missiles.
    Give it a bonus to remote rep range or something similar. Make it so people will actually want to use it & so it's useful in a gang (or fleet).

    It's still about one of the only ships (currently) where you don't really know how it's fit... That's what makes it UNIQUE and potentially dangerous when engaging one.

    And now Each ship now has a specific use & makes them ALL useful.

    /rant over.. coffee on standby

    **edit**

    Yep, I got out of bed the wrong side Evil

    Not fired a shot in anger since 2011.... Trigger finger is starting to get somewhat itchy.......