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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1461 - 2013-04-17 23:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Yeah, blind faith is stronger than arguments I guess. I showed arguments already.

Who's the one with blind faith? I'm saying that tachyons should be rebalanced so that they're actually useful. You're arguing against making weapons useful because you believe that they'll completely obsolete another weapons system even after being shown that they would still have disadvantages, namely significantly higher cap use, significantly higher PG use even with what it would have after a rebalancing, less range, and a damage profile that's fairly useless against the current alpha Loki FOTM with its 95% EM resists.

Yes, significantly higher cap use. You seem to enjoy throwing around numbers like 20% more damage, 30% more tracking to show that Tachyons are OP, but you seem to be ignoring the whole 280% more cap use thing.

Ok, so buff tachyon fitting and cap use, but give railguns 30% more damage and 20% more tacking, so they still have a reason to exists ?

Also, do you know what railgun would do to half the T2 ships in the game ? Plink.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1462 - 2013-04-17 23:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
I'm not whiing about gallente

it happen that gallente were, until a year ago, in a far worse place than amarr ever was

the Hyperion can barely fit 425mm railguns

... have 30% more tracking than 425mm railguns

You can't buff the LR dps of beams without killing railguns

tachyon would be a problem if they were as easy as railguns

Tachyon already are better than railguns

Removing these drawbacks imply the obsolescence of railguns

making them actually better than railguns

The LR Rokh and Naga are an alternative, allowed by the buff of railguns



Railguns, ad nauseum. Yeah, you are whining about gallente. As I mentioned before, every word you have said is nothing more than a mask for a typical gallente whine.

You are merely trying to defend your race's weapons by putting down ours, which are utterly un-usable in comparison. Your conflict of interest is showing, better tuck it back in.


Quote:

The solution is either to buff ALL LR turrets (or you make imbalances)

Once again proving you are not listening to anything anyone says here. We are not arguing for buffs to Amarr and Amarr only in some kind of general discussion thread. Two of the three threads you trolled are Amarr specific. Guess what? I have no problems with a railgun buff, I have even said so in this freaking thread a few times, but railguns are far more usable than beams. I have also said numerous times that the real problem here is that arty is overpowered and everything else sucks by comparison. But you clearly aren't interested in listening, just in spilling out your whiney talking points.


And this right here is possibly the single dumbest thing you have said all week.

Quote:
If you make a ship good at something, another ship won't be good anymore at this thing


What. the. hell. So, if Amarr ships finally get cap stability, this somehow makes a ton of other ship unviable? Seriously, are you high? No, it means that they are BALANCED! That's what balance means! It means that disparate ships can have an equal shot at a significant amount of things. Not that each ship is supposed to have one role and one role only-if you don't like it go get another ship.

Seriously, go back to complaining about the Domi or something, we don't want you here.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1463 - 2013-04-17 23:26:21 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Ok, so buff tachyon fitting and cap use, but give railguns 30% more damage and 20% more tacking, so they still have a reason to exists ?

Thank you for conclusively demonstrating that you don't actually understand how balance works.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1464 - 2013-04-17 23:27:24 UTC
I'm talking about gallente and railguns because beams and amarr are their direct contender, you ****** ! Make links between things please.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1465 - 2013-04-17 23:28:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Ok, so buff tachyon fitting and cap use, but give railguns 30% more damage and 20% more tacking, so they still have a reason to exists ?

Thank you for conclusively demonstrating that you don't actually understand how balance works.

Oh, because completely ignoring how weapons will interact between themselves is proof of understanding of balance ?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1466 - 2013-04-17 23:28:58 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
Perhaps some sort of boost to Cap Rechargers? Has the advantage of not affecting PvP (the overwhelming reason CCP provides for everything they've been doing the past year), yet helping Laser and Hybrid turret users as well as armor repper users for PvE in reducing the overwhelming slot cost involved in making these ships capable of the sustained fire required for serious missioning.

Serious missioning in a T1 ship ? Seriously ?


I think we should start ignoring the obvious troll posts like this. FYI most mission runners use tech 1 ships with t2 or faction modules attached, if they can afford it after becoming uber players they tend to go for t2 or t3, but there's more t1 out there than anything else.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1467 - 2013-04-17 23:29:52 UTC
Kids, kids...

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1468 - 2013-04-17 23:30:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
What. the. hell. So, if Amarr ships finally get cap stability, this somehow makes a ton of other ship unviable? Seriously, are you high? No, it means that they are BALANCED! That's what balance means! It means that disparate ships can have an equal shot at a significant amount of things. Not that each ship is supposed to have one role and one role only-if you don't like it go get another ship.

That is homogenisation : when all things are equal everywhere with different colors. That's not balance.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1469 - 2013-04-17 23:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I'm talking about gallente and railguns because beams and amarr are their direct contender, you ****** ! Make links between things please.


I did. You told me you weren't whining about gallente. I showed how you have been doing nothing but whining about gallente since you even said that. And earlier I made a link between everything else you had said, and how it was simply an indirect way of trying to make sure railguns stay usable, by keeping down their direct contender, as you put it.

Once again, your conflict of interest is showing, tuck it back in.

And your direct contender also includes arty, which I notice you have made it a point to not discuss. :)


Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
What. the. hell. So, if Amarr ships finally get cap stability, this somehow makes a ton of other ship unviable? Seriously, are you high? No, it means that they are BALANCED! That's what balance means! It means that disparate ships can have an equal shot at a significant amount of things. Not that each ship is supposed to have one role and one role only-if you don't like it go get another ship.

That is homogenisation : when all things are equal everywhere with different colors. That's not balance.



No, balance means usability. You want to have yours, and you don't want us to have ours. That is called not wanting balance, that is called bias.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1470 - 2013-04-17 23:30:16 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Ok, so buff tachyon fitting and cap use, but give railguns 30% more damage and 20% more tacking, so they still have a reason to exists ?

Thank you for conclusively demonstrating that you don't actually understand how balance works.

Oh, because completely ignoring how weapons will interact between themselves is proof of understanding of balance ?

But that's exactly what you're doing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1471 - 2013-04-17 23:32:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I'm talking about gallente and railguns because beams and amarr are their direct contender, you ****** ! Make links between things please.


I did. You told me you weren't whining about gallente. I showed how you have been doing nothing but whining about gallente since you even said that. And earlier I made a link between everything else you had said, and how it was simply an indirect way of trying to make sure railguns stay usable, by keeping down their direct contender, as you put it.

Once again, your conflict of interest is showing, tuck it back in.

And your direct contender also includes arty, which I notice you have made it a point to not discuss. :)

Arties are not a contender, because arties have alpha, which make completely different from both railguns and beams...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1472 - 2013-04-17 23:33:53 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I'm talking about gallente and railguns because beams and amarr are their direct contender, you ****** ! Make links between things please.


Keep it professional please, name calling will not assist people to understand your point of view. Just for the record I think railguns are working well, but I won't comment on that here as we're talking about lasers.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1473 - 2013-04-17 23:34:07 UTC
Quote:
Arties are not a contender, because arties have alpha, which make completely different from both railguns and beams...


Because they totally are not the respective long range weapon of their race, right?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1474 - 2013-04-17 23:35:28 UTC
This discussion is pointless. You don't have any clue.

Yes, I know, beams use a lot of cap and that's unfair, cry more please.

I didn't thought it could be possible, but you are even worse than caldari pilots when the drake was nerfed.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#1475 - 2013-04-17 23:37:50 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
This discussion is pointless. You don't have any clue.

Yes, I know, beams use a lot of cap and that's unfair, cry more please.

I didn't thought it could be possible, but you are even worse than caldari pilots when the drake was nerfed.


As someone who's trying to view opinions here, are you saying that there is no imbalance between beams and their use on the new ships, and that if we were to make them use less cap or have lower fitting requirements, this would somehow unbalance the relationship between Amarr battleships and Gallente battleships?

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1476 - 2013-04-17 23:38:41 UTC
The dicussion is pointless, mostly because each of you is draggin cover on their own toes.
If you don't stop bouncing back and forth the same argument (that is mostly offtopic here, as there's a separate thread specifically for Lasers balance issues), I'm calling for moderator attention.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1477 - 2013-04-17 23:40:38 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
This discussion is pointless. You don't have any clue.

Yes, I know, beams use a lot of cap and that's unfair, cry more please.

I didn't thought it could be possible, but you are even worse than caldari pilots when the drake was nerfed.


Not true actually, their rage wss justified and 300+ pages were more or less unheeded by ccp. You can imagine how valued and respected the average caldari feels these days. Missiles where the one thing they did well, now other races can outperform them, same with their tanks.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1478 - 2013-04-17 23:41:56 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
This discussion is pointless. You don't have any clue.

Yes, we do. I actually use large railguns. You don't. Giving us reasonable options for using and fitting tachyons would not make railguns obsolete. I've explained this several times.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Yes, I know, beams use a lot of cap and that's unfair, cry more please.

I didn't thought it could be possible, but you are even worse than caldari pilots when the drake was nerfed.

So I take it you concede then, since you're not offering any more arguments?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1479 - 2013-04-17 23:45:59 UTC
Quote:
So I take it you concede then, since you're not offering any more arguments?


When was he offering arguments in the first place? Rhetorical whining is not an argument, that is an appeal to an emotional response rather than a logical one.

Maybe the argument he just made in the energy turrets thread, where he said we have nothing to complain about because the new Geddon (you know, the droneboat Roll ) will be cap stable.

Or about the part where if Tachyons get any better, then railguns will be useless forever and always.

Nope, none of those are arguments, he's just trolling.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1480 - 2013-04-17 23:50:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
So I take it you concede then, since you're not offering any more arguments?


When was he offering arguments in the first place? Rhetorical whining is not an argument, that is an appeal to an emotional response rather than a logical one.

Maybe the argument he just made in the energy turrets thread, where he said we have nothing to complain about because the new Geddon (you know, the droneboat Roll ) will be cap stable.

Or about the part where if Tachyons get any better, then railguns will be useless forever and always.

Nope, none of those are arguments, he's just trolling.


I suggest that we just ignore any further posts from him across all of the threads, he is not interested in consensus.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...