Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Guys, can you please keep bitching about spherical PvP in vacuum in some other thread? Please.

I'm not whiing about gallente. I only think that all races have a right to exists. You are asking for things which may relegate other races to uselessness.

And yes, it happen that gallente were, until a year ago, in a far worse place than amarr ever was in all the history of the game.

The tiericide is not meant to buff all ships, but to give a niche to each of them.

Abaddon is already one of the best ships in the game, and the resistance bonus nerf won't change anything to that fact, so why should it be buffed like crazy by lowering the cap use of lasers like crazy ? Most arguments here only aim at fixing the natural drawback of amarr ships, only for the sake of it ; because of a perceived unfairness.

Balancing amarr mean that the other ships are still useful, just keep that in mind please. The whole picture. Races are not isolated, and ALL ships interact together. Gallente ships, caldari ships, minmatar ships AND amarr ships. If you make a ship good at something, another ship won't be good anymore at this thing. That's how niches work.

the "buff" that Amarr ship need is a viable capacitor ...

Apparently you haven't been reading the thread.

It's not because projectiles and missiles are capless.

It's because our cap lasts for three minutes WITH BOOSTERS.

It's because in PvE, we can't fit boosters, and are forced to dedicate 3+ slots to having just enough cap to tank things- with all skills at level 5.

And it's worse the less skills you have.

It's because pulse lasers are the only viable lasers on Amarr ships at the moment, and some of us think beams are prettier.

How are those reasons for why the Amarr need a cap bonused ship, or a buff to capacitor? Or the ability to fly their ships with PWG. The Gallente, Minmatar and Caldari can all fly their ships however they want. So why can't the Amarr fly their ships, as Amarr pilots ought to- guns blazing, and actually managing capacitor as opposed to just not having any.

I like the direction these changes are going in, and I'm ESPECIALLY looking forward to the Sentry Drone +micro jump drive Geddon

However I have two quick opinions:

Armageddon - Consider swapping one high slot for a low slot, to make the layout 6-4-8, and then lowering the powergrid even more so it has trouble fitting 6 heavy neuts without a RCU in one of the lows. Historically the Dominix has had an incredible tank, while still remaining effective with neuts but we never see drone DPS fits because there aren't enough low slots to support a tank with Drone damage mods. I would like to see the drone damage build become stronger while the builds that prioritize neut/tank over drones become weaker.

Apocalypse - I actually disagree with the tracking bonus. Although it is definitely nice, other people have already pointed out that this ship will have serious trouble powering the guns and a tank at the same time. Amarr will see a big drop in its Laser-Battleship-PVE ability.

Consider this option: you could add an ammo type (or module, or rig) that increases the damage, or range, or tracking speed of the weapon but also steeply increases its capacitor use. Then you could have the Apocalypse retain its cap use bonus, and it would gain a bigger benefit from simply having that bonus. I do not think that Active armor tanking will be viable for either of the Amarr laser battleships

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, right about scorch.

T1 hyperion can fit 425 railguns pretty easily. You might make sacrifices, but it feels like that's one of the redeeming qualities of Railguns/blasters- they're easier to fit than the laser/artillery counterparts. Open EFT, look at fitting a hyperion with 425 rails, vs fitting an Abaddon with Tachs. Or compare the current state of 425s to Beam II's (which won't ever be used until the real laser rebalance)

I think you missed my point- the only way to tank an Abaddon right now is like a drake, because the lasers sure as hell don't leave room left over in the capacitor for anything else!

Lasers use up much more than your shield booster, unless you're fitting an X-L, which is by definition an oversized module, UNLIKE THE TACHYONS, which remain in "Large" category. If Tachyons were changed to X-L, a lot of people would stop complaining, but they're either mis-labeled, or imbalanced right now.

As for beam lasers themselves, they have competitive damage (read: worse), worse tracking, and a longer max range where the damage quickly falls off after the scorch threshold. Just to put this in perspective, Imp Navy Multifreq in Beam II's outdamages the long range scorch crystal, but the scorch crystal outreaches and out-tracks the multifreq. And it out-reaches/tracks gleam. And once you're outside scorch range, the damage falls off rather quickly, though still dealing more than rails. (note, rails have a much longer absolute range)


This thread is starting to tick me off. If we compare Amarr ships to Amarr ships, we're accused of not looking at the whole picture. If we compare Amarr ships to another race's ship, we're accused of homogenizing and attempting to make lasers capacitor free.

Ok, so because it's not explicitely written on tachyon that they are oversized, here some info about them : they do 20% more damage and have 30% more tracking than 425mm railguns for less than 10% less range. That mean that unless you shoot farther than 150km, they do more damage than the best long range weapon.

Here why their PG and cap use are so big.

^^^^ This.

Honestly, I expect that with the suggested buffs going out to Cruise Missile Launchers, that Amarr and Gallente hulls both will see a marked decrease in use in all these PvP fleets that CCP is claiming the resist nerfs and these tiericide changes are supposed to fix. "Oh, we want to see a decrease in alpha fleets"... but what I'm seeing is that it's going to shift the paradigm away from Alpha vs slowcat to Alpha vs Cruise fleets. Caldari is supposed to be moderate to low damage? And yet they are going to be doing noticeably higher DPS then anything but short range blaster boats at whatever range they want to fit for with these new Cruise Launchers.

I mean, I'm looking over this thread yesterday and today after dropping it for awhile to focus on the laser thread for several days, and I see a damned [i[great[/i] improvement from the vast majority in posting actual reasons and suggestions for what is wrong instead of all those "Rawr, rage, angst!" posts we were getting slammed with... and not only have the Devs flat out told us unless Sisi testing suggests otherwise, they aren't going to change anything, but they have also apparently decided to just stop bothering with these threads anymore (note the utter lack of response to any of them since Saturday despite ample time to check up on them).

I'm about ready to just have a few tears for my beloved Amarr Battleships, and instead focus on what I can do with the Legion and the Navy Harb, as that's apparently what we are being told to go and play with now if we want laser boats outside of blob fleets.

So it's perfectly fine then that no battleship of Amarr can actually fit a full rack of these without ridiculous concessions?
Meaning that even with these benefits, nobody ever uses them? Ever?
Come on now, stop trolling. You know exactly what the problem is.