Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Don't want to make it TOO much like the Bhaalgorn.
Actually, that's really my only concern with the Armageddon is making it too much like the Bhaalgorn. It's probably fair to say there's enough difference to make the ships distinct, just as long as they don't get any more alike.

Aye, CCP Rise's commentary on the stream video was also illuminating for his reasoning on the Apoc change.

-Liang

This barely resembles a bhalg. Just because it has one aspect that is simlar to a balg and the same hull doesn't really affect the way the bhalg will continue to facerape everything in sight.

Fozzies contributions to the Slicer are minor, just run of the mill tweaks really. The ship itself is designed in such a way that it does kiting well but not exclusively, the Brawler fit is madly powerful if you abuse meta rigs .. 20km sphere of death basically with enough staying power to outlast anything not injected.

How does adding one of the most desirable bonuses on top of the most desirable bonus push it into obsolescence?

It will be cap unstable, but they have already opened negotiations on that front so haggle away .. going to need at least the equivalent of a T2 Elutri rig (25%) to be truly viable but hardly makes it obsolete.

What irks me the most is that they obviously want to try to revive BS sniping, but are reluctant to make the changes that could possible make it viable.
Warp-to distance need to be pushed to 200km (doubt many want probes nerfed again, too damn nice as tool now) and tier3 BCs need to take a considerable hit in performance department, suggested that their tracking be halved (they are basically Jeeps trying to use guns from a Main Battle Tank .. stabilization cannot possibly be enough!) to give the proper users of large guns the edge.

As for a counter to alpha:
There has been a growing number of suggestion for some sort of fleet defense screen type thing, so why not?
Add a chaff (term used lightly) dispenser as a high-slot module. Can only hold two or three charges and Ammo is large enough to cripple cargo space (think 800 charges). Generates a cloud centered on dispenser with a 10-15km radius lasting 30-60s during which time any ordnance (ie. affect missiles as well) targeting a ship within cloud loses 50-75% of its damage.
Increase the sacrifice (to mitigate OPness) by saying that the metal shards used to deflect incoming fire must come from the superstructure (hull) of the ship using it and take off 5% hull per activation.
Increase it further by extending the reduction to anything entering the cloud including transfers, command links, RR the works .. a nice tight cluster (everything within clouds) to avoid giving bombers a renaissance as bombs are untargeted.

Abaddon is similar (cap-wise) and hardly obsolete or unused so what do you base the statement on? Sure the hoops we have to jump through to make it/them work could, nay should, be far fewer but the hull itself is about as good as it gets .. rest should come from laser cap reduction as discussed in the other thread as that doubles as a boost to Abaddon.

Same grid and only 20 less base CPU (new stats remember?) .. the only problem is cap which is being talked about in the [Odyssey] Large Energy Turrets thread.
Once an amicable solution is found the Apocalypse stands to be a powerful boat with few equals, sure it won't be able to compete with the Abaddon for sheer firepower but it will hit practically everything within range .. it is the perfect complement to the other two.

erm... in what way are amarr and caldari even similar?

wtf? That makes NO sense.
Every race can kite, and every race can brawl. Gallente tend to be a bit more specialized for brawling, and Minmatar tend to be a bit more specialized for kiting. Amarr and Caldari are fairly mixed in that respect, although there are Gallente ships for kiting (Talos) and Minmatar ships for brawling (Loki). I don't see how this makes them in any way homogeneous.

Isn't it 10% per gun? I think that's significant cap reduction.

It is insignificant. Abaddon (and now Apocalypse) is still forced to spend twin rigs and at least one mid to be able to fire for any meaningful amount of time. That 10% needs to be at least equal to one rig (25%) for it to even register but around that point you risk the off-race situation where faster/better ships suddenly forego the weapons they were designed around to abuse the awesomeness that is Scorch.

Catch-22, gotta love it

Either Amarr hulls are given sufficient cap, a viable option to attain said without needing 3-4 rigs/slots or lasers get a blanket nerf with fitting/cap reduced to levels comparable to everything else .. pretty sure all are in favour of the first option and would burn Jita, Rens and the Gall/Cald cesspools if the last was even considered.