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Caldari Prime Aftermath thoughts?

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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#21 - 2013-04-10 23:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
I feel ignored :S

Let me put it in other words.

The reason Ishukone was allowed to send in relief support so early, and the reason they now have civilian oversight on Caldari Prime, is likely founded in the fact that CEO Mens Repolla has a direct business relationship with President Jacus Roden.
Murya Mordu is involved in that same business, these three made a secret deal regarding Clone Soldier research and testing. Hence it's also not so surprising Mordu's Legion is now security force on Caldari Prime.


Tony Gonzales in Templar One wrote:
'So we're all here for the same thing,' Jacus said, 'But to what end? Deterrence or aggression?`
'Amarr has done enough to leave its mark on history,' Mordu said. 'I won't let them paint our future in gold.'
'Heth will destroy Ishukone,' Mens said, 'I need this technology to defend it from him.'
'And I can help both of you, ' Jacus said. "If my government objects... then I'll bring the assets of Roden Shipyards to bear on this matter.'
'So then how do we help each other right now?' Mens asked.
'Simple, ' Roden said. 'You have the blueprints. I know where the prototype is, and Mordu has the best chance of capturing him alive.'
[...]
'I agree to those terms,' Roden said. 'So we have a joint venture now?'
[...]
'Fair point,' Mordu said. 'I'm in.'
'Done, ' Mens said.
Jasmin Soulscream
Daeuuas.
#22 - 2013-04-11 00:36:25 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
I feel ignored :S

Let me put it in other words.

The reason Ishukone was allowed to send in relief support so early, and the reason they now have civilian oversight on Caldari Prime, is likely founded in the fact that CEO Mens Repolla has a direct business relationship with President Jacus Roden.
Murya Mordu is involved in that same business, these three made a secret deal regarding Clone Soldier research and testing. Hence it's also not so surprising Mordu's Legion is now security force on Caldari Prime.


Tony Gonzales in Templar One wrote:
'So we're all here for the same thing,' Jacus said, 'But to what end? Deterrence or aggression?`
'Amarr has done enough to leave its mark on history,' Mordu said. 'I won't let them paint our future in gold.'
'Heth will destroy Ishukone,' Mens said, 'I need this technology to defend it from him.'
'And I can help both of you, ' Jacus said. "If my government objects... then I'll bring the assets of Roden Shipyards to bear on this matter.'
'So then how do we help each other right now?' Mens asked.
'Simple, ' Roden said. 'You have the blueprints. I know where the prototype is, and Mordu has the best chance of capturing him alive.'
[...]
'I agree to those terms,' Roden said. 'So we have a joint venture now?'
[...]
'Fair point,' Mordu said. 'I'm in.'
'Done, ' Mens said.



This may be why you where Ignored.

Alot of people have different opinions on TonyG and his books some people think they where good others think they where terrible and thus pretend that the books never happend. Whenever people link TonyG's books theres usualy a collective groan and people tend to ignore it
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#23 - 2013-04-11 01:52:34 UTC
Jasmin Soulscream wrote:


This may be why you where Ignored.

Alot of people have different opinions on TonyG and his books some people think they where good others think they where terrible and thus pretend that the books never happend. Whenever people link TonyG's books theres usualy a collective groan and people tend to ignore it


People can't just ignore CCP endorsed fiction because they don't like the flavour.. Roll

While it's not explicitly stated, this same scene that was just described might be the same as the one in the DUST 514 intro cinematic.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#24 - 2013-04-11 04:50:20 UTC
Ehh, I hadn't read Templar One but thats just...well...eh.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Jasmin Soulscream
Daeuuas.
#25 - 2013-04-11 11:53:48 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Jasmin Soulscream wrote:


This may be why you where Ignored.

Alot of people have different opinions on TonyG and his books some people think they where good others think they where terrible and thus pretend that the books never happend. Whenever people link TonyG's books theres usualy a collective groan and people tend to ignore it


People can't just ignore CCP endorsed fiction because they don't like the flavour.. Roll

While it's not explicitly stated, this same scene that was just described might be the same as the one in the DUST 514 intro cinematic.


Yeah you would be surprised most of the RP community that I am aware of despise TonyG and ignore all of his changes I for one do the same seeing as my character can happly ignore almost everything that happend in the books as I wouldnt know them IC.

Also by the looks of it many of the things that TonyG put into his books are being changed or removed for the better with the current live events
CCP Falcon
#26 - 2013-04-11 14:05:30 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
I feel ignored :S

Let me put it in other words.

The reason Ishukone was allowed to send in relief support so early, and the reason they now have civilian oversight on Caldari Prime, is likely founded in the fact that CEO Mens Repolla has a direct business relationship with President Jacus Roden.
Murya Mordu is involved in that same business, these three made a secret deal regarding Clone Soldier research and testing. Hence it's also not so surprising Mordu's Legion is now security force on Caldari Prime.


Tony Gonzales in Templar One wrote:
'So we're all here for the same thing,' Jacus said, 'But to what end? Deterrence or aggression?`
'Amarr has done enough to leave its mark on history,' Mordu said. 'I won't let them paint our future in gold.'
'Heth will destroy Ishukone,' Mens said, 'I need this technology to defend it from him.'
'And I can help both of you, ' Jacus said. "If my government objects... then I'll bring the assets of Roden Shipyards to bear on this matter.'
'So then how do we help each other right now?' Mens asked.
'Simple, ' Roden said. 'You have the blueprints. I know where the prototype is, and Mordu has the best chance of capturing him alive.'
[...]
'I agree to those terms,' Roden said. 'So we have a joint venture now?'
[...]
'Fair point,' Mordu said. 'I'm in.'
'Done, ' Mens said.


Blink


CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Falcon
#27 - 2013-04-11 14:19:42 UTC
Jasmin Soulscream wrote:
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Jasmin Soulscream wrote:


This may be why you where Ignored.

Alot of people have different opinions on TonyG and his books some people think they where good others think they where terrible and thus pretend that the books never happend. Whenever people link TonyG's books theres usualy a collective groan and people tend to ignore it


People can't just ignore CCP endorsed fiction because they don't like the flavour.. Roll

While it's not explicitly stated, this same scene that was just described might be the same as the one in the DUST 514 intro cinematic.


Yeah you would be surprised most of the RP community that I am aware of despise TonyG and ignore all of his changes I for one do the same seeing as my character can happly ignore almost everything that happend in the books as I wouldnt know them IC.

Also by the looks of it many of the things that TonyG put into his books are being changed or removed for the better with the current live events


Regardless of the opinion some players hold on the content of the EVE novels, they're in hard print, and are canon. While some might not like the way certain factions were portrayed, or the direction they took, that's what happened, and that's where we move forward from. Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2013-04-11 16:05:56 UTC
I'd probably consider the books at about the level of SW Extended Universe, so far as canon is concerned -- it's prime fiction, but secondary to chronicles.

That said, I'll admit that I just ordered all three of the books so that I have fewer gaps in my knowledge. :x

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#29 - 2013-04-12 01:18:06 UTC
I was kind of hoping for some sort of system wide peace treaty; sure (parts of) Caldari Prime are sovereign Caldari territory, but it is still surrounded by hostile space. That Ishukone has exclusive rights to the Caldari part for the moment makes sense, given the rhetoric being thrown around over Ishukones less hostile stance toward the Federation, and the fact they have long been at odds with Heth's administration, they did take a large risk which has resulted in large results. Also, as others have noted, while they aren't the only Mega who has been at odds with Het, and other megas have operated a bit in Gallente space, Ishukone is the only one really shown to be actively trying to counteract Heth's bridge burning, so even if the CEP doesn't like it, it is possible they had no choice to have Ishukone control Caldari Prime as the Federation doesn't trust the others enough.

Still, I fully expect some tension as the other megas both seek to get their own cut of the planet as well as trying to slowly reduce Federation presence. I expect to hear about deals where megacorps buy some of the land administrated by Material Acquisition.and possibly Ishukone as well.

Simon Louvaki wrote:

I'd almost liken the idea as to how the Crusader Clans planned to divide up Earth after they conquered the Inner Sphere in the Mechwarrior series, and in fact, I think the similarities is one of the allures I had to the Caldari State. Caldari Prime is to the Caldari State as Terra was to the Clans, and the competitive nature of both just doesn't allow for a single corporation/clan to hold such a powerful symbol alone.

That's not entirely an accurate comparison. The plan was that the clan who took Terra first became the lead clan and essentially absorbed the others; there wouldn't have been any dividing of Terra.

===
I do think it's a pity the battle for Caldari prime seemed railroaded a bit. While I don't like that the deck seemed to be stacked against the Caldari, I can at least understand it, but I would have preferred events were left to play out rather than a GM hitting/kill on the titan. The Titan may still have been killed, but if it had in that case, it would have been a more legitimate death since player involvement brought it about.

The ground on the other hand is mostly a fluke since players couldn't actually choose the side they were on, so if they were loyal to one faction, their only recourse was to just **** about and sabotage the other faction if the matchmaker put them on the wrong side.
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#30 - 2013-04-12 04:42:36 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Regardless of the opinion some players hold on the content of the EVE novels, they're in hard print, and are canon. While some might not like the way certain factions were portrayed, or the direction they took, that's what happened, and that's where we move forward from. Smile


CCP Falcon, you should be well aware of what I am about to post, however I am not writing it for you, but for others.


The problem with the EVE novels (and plenty of other canon) is that the information portrayed in those sources is outside the information to which most characters will have access. The information in TEA and Templar One has to be outside the realm of knowledge for our characters or the entire dynamic is changed.

Given the type of knowledge in Blind Auction and in Templare One, the way in which numerous player characters (and NPCs) should change dramatically. The idea of open cooperation between the Federal government and a Caldari mega, while they are supposed to be at war, makes a pretty compelling case to strip said mega of its membership on the CEP (see Quafe's lose of membership*). This would create a very different dynamic.

Another example would include the canon fact that Otro Gariushi blackmailed his way to being the CEO of Ishukone after stealing prototype Ravens** as a Guristas is not information that should be common knowledge among the capsuleer community or New Eden at large.

*Actual article appears to be missing since it was buried in the Gallente & Caldari streams, which are unavailable :( Link to Backstage discussion.

**An excellent example of conflict in the canon is the IG description of the Scorpion versus the protrayal of the Raven as the prototype vs Scorpion in the Short Story Ruthless.

Lai Dai Infinity Systems
CCP Falcon
#31 - 2013-04-12 10:46:22 UTC
Dex Nederland wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Regardless of the opinion some players hold on the content of the EVE novels, they're in hard print, and are canon. While some might not like the way certain factions were portrayed, or the direction they took, that's what happened, and that's where we move forward from. Smile


CCP Falcon, you should be well aware of what I am about to post, however I am not writing it for you, but for others.


The problem with the EVE novels (and plenty of other canon) is that the information portrayed in those sources is outside the information to which most characters will have access. The information in TEA and Templar One has to be outside the realm of knowledge for our characters or the entire dynamic is changed.

Given the type of knowledge in Blind Auction and in Templare One, the way in which numerous player characters (and NPCs) should change dramatically. The idea of open cooperation between the Federal government and a Caldari mega, while they are supposed to be at war, makes a pretty compelling case to strip said mega of its membership on the CEP (see Quafe's lose of membership*). This would create a very different dynamic.

Another example would include the canon fact that Otro Gariushi blackmailed his way to being the CEO of Ishukone after stealing prototype Ravens** as a Guristas is not information that should be common knowledge among the capsuleer community or New Eden at large.

*Actual article appears to be missing since it was buried in the Gallente & Caldari streams, which are unavailable :( Link to Backstage discussion.

**An excellent example of conflict in the canon is the IG description of the Scorpion versus the protrayal of the Raven as the prototype vs Scorpion in the Short Story Ruthless.


Discrepancies between older prime fiction, the books, novellas, and stuff on the wiki is something that is an ongoing process of cleaning up.

Given the sheer amount of backstory that's out there, it takes time to get to everything. It's a very long process, and will take a hell of a lot of time, but I know for a fact that it's something CCP Abraxas and CCP Gnauton are very passionate about doing Smile

Anyway, this is more of a discussion for the EVE Fiction forum. Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#32 - 2013-04-12 13:57:59 UTC
Roll

The point of my post was not to point out the discrepancies, but to highlight there is some information in the canon that should be inaccessible to most characters or the way in which characters (both PC and NPC) act should be very different.

I think that discussion is very pertinent to live events because it is a discussion of what information players have versus what information characters should have.

Is the assumption on the part of the event team that the characters have all the information and are omniscient?

Lai Dai Infinity Systems
CCP Falcon
#33 - 2013-04-12 14:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Dex Nederland wrote:
Roll

The point of my post was not to point out the discrepancies, but to highlight there is some information in the canon that should be inaccessible to most characters or the way in which characters (both PC and NPC) act should be very different.

I think that discussion is very pertinent to live events because it is a discussion of what information players have versus what information characters should have.

Is the assumption on the part of the event team that the characters have all the information and are omniscient?


If you'd explained more clearly, and made the point directly rather than dragging discrepancies in prime fiction into your post, then I would have responded as such Blink

To answer your question, no, that is not our assumption.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#34 - 2013-04-12 15:42:58 UTC
The knowledge might not be known to our characters, but it's fun for we as players to witness these epic stories and dramas. If we restrict the content to what only our individual characters would know, it severely limits the sort of entertainment you can be exposed to.

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
CCP Falcon
#35 - 2013-04-12 15:52:58 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
The knowledge might not be known to our characters, but it's fun for we as players to witness these epic stories and dramas. If we restrict the content to what only our individual characters would know, it severely limits the sort of entertainment you can be exposed to.


Exactly.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#36 - 2013-04-12 16:54:55 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
The knowledge might not be known to our characters, but it's fun for we as players to witness these epic stories and dramas. If we restrict the content to what only our individual characters would know, it severely limits the sort of entertainment you can be exposed to.


Three cheers to that. I will be 100% honest and say that the Live Event/RP/Ongoing Storyline aspects are the only reason I still play EVE. I may not be Midular or Sarum, but I still feel like I can witness and participate in the Ongoing Story. Even if it's mostly small parts. I might be Stormtrooper #28 that took a few potshots at the good guys, but at least it's screen time in an epic story.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#37 - 2013-04-12 16:54:56 UTC
While our characters won't have exact information, remember that we as players both see lots of Behind-The-Curtain material but very little day-to-day news -- it'd be reasonable to say that the non-admissible material would still allow us to draw general perceptions.

For instance, my character doesn't know a bloody thing about the miner's disease Heth has -- but she can certainly tell that he's ill and behaving erratically. ;)

--on a tangent, it'd be great if the male Ishukone Watch shirts could be converted (via LP? Item redemption?) to a women's shirt, even if no more enter the market...

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-04-13 07:09:03 UTC
Yoma Karima wrote:
Okey now that we've have some time to mill over it (and its monday so im bored out of my skullOops) lets take a look back at the aftermath of the latest battle for Caldari Prime.

First the battle itself Gallente won in space but Caldari Forces won on the ground( or at least held most of the planet to im leaning towords a Caldari tactical victory groundside.) Titan crashed (not a big issue cool idea and well executed no complants hear)

Second the aftermath of the battle. Like any big event the aftermath takes time to role around. Caldari Prime is now a DMZ split into two diffrent governmental zones. On Caldari the other Gallente with a third party taking over planet security (My biggest pet peave hear is not getting all the gallente citizens off caldari prime once and for all. As we now have ourselves a East/west Berlin thing going on with the planet split by two diffrent governments yet one government compleatly controls the teritory around it. Despite the two nations, Heth excluded, best efforts i can see this coming back to bit both in the rear whenever CCP really wants to sture both sides up.)


Lingering feelling. From the Gallente side this probubly felt a long time comeing( tips hat to Grid and Pro gallente FCORD fleet) but from the Caldari side... meh anti-climactic mutch? Now im refering to the aftermath of the battle. with Heth promising Gallente will pay we have yet to see just how sycotice this man is going to get for revenge. I for one am looking forwards to seeing if Heth finaly gives use Caldari loyalists who have a profound distased for him an excuse to oust him from power.


I would love to hear how you all feel about the battle's aftermath. Are you satisfied with how things turned out or were you hoping for more bloodshed?





Shocked

when did the whole DMZ thing happen?!!?!?

my merc is going to be PISSED!

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-04-13 07:12:48 UTC
ugh, ten years of back story, being a RP at times feels like a second job
-_-

a way to compress a decade of history so new players don't have to spend a year reading it all would be nice

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Heinel Coventina
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-04-18 11:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinel Coventina
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
ugh, ten years of back story, being a RP at times feels like a second job
-_-

a way to compress a decade of history so new players don't have to spend a year reading it all would be nice


I actually find there to be not enough information to flesh out new characters currently. Sure there are a lot of events, but there's almost no setting. We learned of what, no more than 10 cities across all the planets of New Eden? That's a very small pool. There are other more nuanced things, like "What is the Amarr's national hit-list called?" or "What is the scope of 'Freedom' in the legislation of the federation?"

Yes, I know, these stuff are mostly boring and not very useful otherwise, but they do contribute to gaps in our knowledge of the world. I find the wiki mostly unhelpful. Information is nested in many layers and there is no navigation. In fact, there are not enough editors to maintain the wiki at all. I bet no one, not a single person in the dev house and in the entire player base can give a complete overview of what is in the evelopedia in the most general sense. It should be discarded after relevant information has been mined.

The flow of information between devs, vets, and newbies can be facilitated much better if the information site uses the system of Quora/StackExchange where it's a Q&A with search. Instead of blindly creating pages that nobody really care and accumulate a giant heap of abominable text, let the people who are seeking answers to actually input their question. Answer only questions that people ask. It will keep everyone sane in the long term.
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