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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#881 - 2013-04-11 16:12:09 UTC
Really think all battelships of ALL races should have 3 bonuses. That would help CCp have space to reinforce race identities whiel finding role sfor the ships and helping to make battelships more useful

That said.. a weak bonus:

ammar bonus coudl be the cap usage one.

minmatar one could be some 2% per level speed

Caldari could be 5% shields HP

Gallente could be bloody helll... that is harder.. but maybe 3% drone speed per level

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#882 - 2013-04-11 16:58:45 UTC
Ruze wrote:
A couple points to make regarding the 'feel' of these changes:

Switch the Abaddon and Geddon changes. Look at the shape and feel of each of the drone ships. Dragoon is a much thicker, rounder destroyer than the coercer. The Arbi, while streamlined, still does not look like a laser boat. The prophecy has that 'bloated' look, too, lending credance to it carrying a bunch of drones. The Abaddon, of all the Amarr battleships, is the one that looks most like a flight of drones will pop out of every orifice.

Why is looks important? It's not to everyone. But I feel the primary laser ships get that same sense of feel. As an example, the way the Harbinger compares to the Geddon. The straight sightlines, the armored front, the lasers broadside. Both look like laser boats.



Secondly, I feel very strongly about losing my Armageddon. In every sense of the word, it is a classic design that has been around since the beginning of EvE. While I have never understood just why the Abaddon became the flagship of armor battleships when the Geddon was obviously designed with protection in mind, I will concede that it's been popular.

But don't change a classic if it don't need changed. These changes are still far enough away to backtrack, to rethink, and to place that Armageddon as the most heavily armored, hardest punching laser boat of the fleet ... AS IT BLOODY WELL SHOULD BE!

Edit: Because I cannot seem to sense since I read this post.


This. Armageddon is a classic icon. Turning into a a missile boat is a disgrace. Ive been flying geddons since 2006 a d while it seem silly, I still love that ship. Its my fav for pvp.

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PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#883 - 2013-04-11 17:02:04 UTC
I'm still a little confused why anyone would use the Apoc over the Oracle. The Oracle can at least fit a full rack of Tachyons without too much trouble. The Apoc still needs fitting mods just to do something the attack battlecruiser can do naturally.

It has been mentioned elsewhere, but what about adding a role bonus on all the attack battleships for the MJD, at least then you have a reason to fly them over the attack BCs.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#884 - 2013-04-11 17:07:03 UTC
Jack C Hughes wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Gabriel Stipp wrote:
Ok ok for all the guys out there hating me for liking the new geddon:
I don't like loosing it as a laser ship. Just wanted to find one good aspect in the new ships.
Maybe it would be ok to have the old ship with a drone bonus in exchange for the cap Bonus......
Just an idea don't hit me ^^

Armageddon don't need bloody drone bonus. (As much as I love drones, I'm not a moron.)
Armageddon is a clear example of how Amarr Attack Battleship should work. It have mobility issues, which can be helped by moving one of the slots to the mid, and need some PG/CPU love to help fitting prop mod, but othervise it is ALREADY FREAKIN' GOOD ATTACK BS. Why everyone so blind as not seeing it, tell me?


Yes it is a good one, even my favourate one in Amarr BS.

The problem is just CCP don't like it, or don't like to have 3 laser ships.

Which for me is absolutly okay as that is what Amarr is.

Then do something to Abaddon. be it neut+drones+unbonused missiles or drones+unbonused lasers, I'll be equally happy to fly it, then. But it don't have a role NOW, besides being a bastard of the 3'rd tier, and giving it a role of another, already existing ship, that works well, is just stupid, and if you give it some other role, to make it actually do something, aside of being expensive and fat, it'll only be for good.
Actually, the only reason I don't fly Abaddon now is this one: It's not a fish, neither a meat. Yeah, it may have EHP, now, you won't be eating EHP for breakfast.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#885 - 2013-04-11 17:13:40 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
I'm still a little confused why anyone would use the Apoc over the Oracle. The Oracle can at least fit a full rack of Tachyons without too much trouble. The Apoc still needs fitting mods just to do something the attack battlecruiser can do naturally.

It has been mentioned elsewhere, but what about adding a role bonus on all the attack battleships for the MJD, at least then you have a reason to fly them over the attack BCs.

Because CCP's spaghetti arms were unable to swing the hammer with enough force when they 'iterated' on the tier3's .. bit more mass here and there and a slight speed decrease does zilch.
BS will have their place, but where they were the stable for both offense and defense in the past they will probably only be used for offense now as they alone have the EHP to survive the crucial first ten minutes (with RR) of a defensive tier3 swarm.

Then again, CCP might have some tricksy things planned for sov that will reinstate BS as the go-to hull for brute force operations .. time will tell (hopefully as CCP are mum Smile)
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#886 - 2013-04-11 19:01:40 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:



If CCP are utterly convinced that they need to change the Armageddon design for the upcoming expansion, make it more like the Augoror - a ship designed for POSITIVE cap warfare;


Another small change that would add a lot of funny gameplay options: since energy vampires, neuts and energy transfer arrays require the same skill anyway, let the ship bonus affect all three modules and let the players decide how to use it.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#887 - 2013-04-11 19:20:55 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:



If CCP are utterly convinced that they need to change the Armageddon design for the upcoming expansion, make it more like the Augoror - a ship designed for POSITIVE cap warfare;


Another small change that would add a lot of funny gameplay options: since energy vampires, neuts and energy transfer arrays require the same skill anyway, let the ship bonus affect all three modules and let the players decide how to use it.

I actually kinda like that. Not really that powerful (range instead of amount) but actually kind of handy should you be trying to move a large RR group around the battlefield.

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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#888 - 2013-04-11 20:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
Nikolai Vodkov wrote:
Armageddon is a classic icon. Turning into a a missile boat is a disgrace.

Quoted for truth.
Armageddon and Apocalypse is a two Amarr iconic ships.
Also, I don't see Navy Armageddon SUDDENLY becoming Neut/Nos abomination in the spirit of Blood Raiders. Neither I see that happening to an Apocalypse. Or, let's be honest, I don't want to see any of these two Amarr mainline ships becoming an atrocity of the fleet.

P.S.
If you want an Amarr drone boat, Abaddon even have a launch bay for them. Which neither of the other two hulls have.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#889 - 2013-04-11 20:18:45 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:



If CCP are utterly convinced that they need to change the Armageddon design for the upcoming expansion, make it more like the Augoror - a ship designed for POSITIVE cap warfare;


Another small change that would add a lot of funny gameplay options: since energy vampires, neuts and energy transfer arrays require the same skill anyway, let the ship bonus affect all three modules and let the players decide how to use it.

That's actually a good idea, and would encourage new players even in missions to fleet up.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#890 - 2013-04-11 20:22:10 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
would encourage new players even in missions to fleet up.

Thanks, I laughed. Especially hard I laughed for missions, where warping in a second ship aggro whole pocket.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Meduza13
Silver Octopus
Infernal Octopus
#891 - 2013-04-11 20:22:26 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
Its funny how the Gallente changes were totally re-done due to player outcry, and the Amarr changes, which are far worse, have been given A trivial adjustment.

Here is a great quote from CCP Rise on the updated Megathron post:

Quote:
This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.



How about the 'flavor' the Geddon has been building? It is ridiculous. There is no consideration being given to what Amarr Pilots actually need from their Ships, and the current changes just show how out of touch CCP is with the Amarr pilots.


> There is now no Amarr BS with 8 lows? Roll But the Megathron gets a perfect 7/4/8 layout that frankly would better suit the Geddon.

> There is now no Amarr BS that can fire its guns for any decent amount of time without burning through cap boosters at an absurd rate. Not that there was much cargohold m3 to hold them to begin with.

> The Apoc's #1 problem of not being able to fit a full rack of tachyons has not been addressed. Instead we have given it even more cap issues in return for a tracking bonus it did not need.

> The old Geddon's 125m3 drone bay was more than enough to encourage Amarr pilots to train drones, and reward them for their SP in the Prophecy/Dragoon ect.

> On a side note, CCP gave the Navy Harbinger a 5th mid and a tracking bonus instead of a 7th low.


Why is Amarr being shifted to a mid slot heavy race? It has never been this way and it shouldn't. Amarr should always have more low slots than their Gallente counterparts, and Gallente should have more mids.



I urge you to change direction before you throw ~10 years of this game out the window.

If you insist on this new direction I am afraid you will alienate dedicated Amarr pilots who have been playing for 8+ years now.



This guy went straight to the point, I hope CCP Rise you reading it carefully. We still havent got the answer.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#892 - 2013-04-11 20:40:33 UTC
Meduza13 wrote:
This guy went straight to the point, I hope CCP Rise you reading it carefully. We still havent got the answer.


I don't think he will answer for some time yet. He has (at time of writing) 45 pages to actually rather than just breezing to find the posts that say they like the changes. I've started to get the feeling of having No Confidence in these changes.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#893 - 2013-04-11 20:46:39 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
would encourage new players even in missions to fleet up.

Thanks, I laughed. Especially hard I laughed for missions, where warping in a second ship aggro whole pocket.

That just means that they all need a proper tank, doesn't mean one ship can't be cap support to a few others to make it easier for them to melt the rats with their lasers.
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#894 - 2013-04-11 20:50:11 UTC
Amarr changes continue to be total butchery, we continue not to get any response that addresses that fact in this thread, etc.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#895 - 2013-04-11 20:55:07 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
would encourage new players even in missions to fleet up.

Thanks, I laughed. Especially hard I laughed for missions, where warping in a second ship aggro whole pocket.

That just means that they all need a proper tank, doesn't mean one ship can't be cap support to a few others to make it easier for them to melt the rats with their lasers.

You know? We've tried it back in the day. Newbie Prophecy + Augoror(mine, I've had enough skills to make it work, but nowhere near the top).
Didn't worked quite well. Neither of us have enough tank to survive the aggro alone.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#896 - 2013-04-11 20:56:45 UTC
Jiji Hamin wrote:
Amarr changes continue to be total butchery, we continue not to get any response that addresses that fact in this thread, etc.

What it usually means is this.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Mr Hyde113
#897 - 2013-04-11 21:10:11 UTC
I can't see why they shouldn't care, or atleast as much as they did for the Gallente.

Their initial Gal proposal was terribad so...

They took them down

Had a meeting

Posted new ones

New ones are way better.


Amarr?

Initial post is the worst of all proposed changes

25 Pages of complaints (mostly)

CCP Rise posts that he is reading them, but isn't changing anything.

He REDUCES the REDUCTION of the Apocs cap to 'solve' our complaint of the Apoc's cap Roll

45 pages....still nothing substantial, especially concerning the Geddon.

I'm just going to keep posting until we get actual revisions. Evil
Wolfe Malar
Lone Wolves of Malar
#898 - 2013-04-11 21:11:13 UTC
Amarr:

Abaddon
- In combat turret line as expected.
- High slot layout is nice and meshes with other combat turret ships overall. 8 turrets and 0 utility
- Non-drone ship bandwidth needs to either be made consistent across ship line according to race or across all racial non-drone ships. Prefer to limit bandwidth on non-drone Amarr ships to 75.
- Would like 4 missile hardpoint like the Rokh for extra options and possibilities.

Apocalypse
- In the attack turret line as expected.
- Currently the attack turret line is all over the place on high slot layout. Not bad per say, but if so each needs to have something special. Would prefer if the number of turret and utility slots across the line were consistent.
- Non-drone ship bandwidth needs to either be made consistent across ship line according to race or across all racial non-drone ships. Prefer to limit bandwidth on non-drone Amarr ships to 75.
- Would like 4 missile hardpoint like the Tempest for extra options and possibilities.

Armageddon
- In the combat alt (drone) line, nice choice.
- High slot layout is okay since the other combat drone boat doesn’t have an energy warfare bonus at the moment.
- Warning: may cause problems later along with the Blood Raider ships if an Amarr disruption battleship is introduced
- Drone boat is drone boat :P
- Choice between launchers or turrets is very welcomed, and fits other Amarr drone boats.

I have expressed my thoughts on the overall battleship design in the "Introducing Myself....." thread and it contains more detailed reasons for my comments on the specific ships above:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2871021#post2871021
Meduza13
Silver Octopus
Infernal Octopus
#899 - 2013-04-11 21:13:00 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:

I'm just going to keep posting until we get actual revisions. Evil


Well so there will be at least 2 of us.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#900 - 2013-04-11 21:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
I have vested interest in Gallente BS, but they can't be screwed any more, than they are. Could be better, probably, but I'll likely be able to fly either of them, they all have their roles, which are not gonna change (I hope, but I don't really care much, as lond as I have rail-drone platform out of this mess.).
But I also have no smaller interest in Amarr BS, and what happening in this thread is nothing less than heresy, if not treason against the Empire and Empress.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison