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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending
#301 - 2011-10-31 20:23:11 UTC
@Tallest/Ballancers: Not quite certain how often this was brougth up in this thread already, btu could we also lower the size of hybrid ammo, while we're at it?
Al'ha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2011-10-31 20:23:42 UTC
Max Velocity +10? Funny joke.
Another one Matar boost. Again. Why CCP do not like Gallente?.. Ugh
Zircon Dasher
#303 - 2011-10-31 20:25:51 UTC
Hail w/o falloff penalty.

TY TY TY TY TY TY

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#304 - 2011-10-31 20:26:54 UTC
Speed and agility on blasterships needs to be improved even more tbh. The boats are still sluggish as hell, and cant get close to other ships fast enough. Remember that those damn buffer tanks, or plates/armor rigs makes the gallente blasterboats slower.
That wouldnt be such a problem if it wasnt for the fact that we have the worst optimal and falloff range of all race's.

The deimos is one of the ships that need a special look at, since it is atm a useless ship.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#305 - 2011-10-31 20:27:48 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Got through about 1/2 of the posts here, and I think many of you need to get on EFT and try some new loadouts, using the new stats, before you rant and rave about the proposed rebalancing.


Spoken like someone who's got no experience flying a hybrid platform.


yeah i know eh the thing with pre boosted blasters is on eft they looked awesome... but we need more than just on paper awesome...we need in game awesome and the boost from CCP Tallest will just make them look better on paper but not in practice

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#306 - 2011-10-31 20:27:58 UTC
Quote:
Before we start looking at armor tanking issues or individual ships, Hybrid weapons as a whole need to be boosted up to a level where using them becomes desirable.


Highlighted for those who I think glossed over this. However it seems they aren't done with Gallente/Hybrids just yet.
Iohet Nolafew
Perkone
Caldari State
#307 - 2011-10-31 20:28:41 UTC
Metellus Titurius wrote:
My thoughts summed up:

-Rails need a larger bump in damage, otherwise players still have no reason to use them over artillery
-Don't decrease the powergrid for rails as much because the point of sniping is to sacrifice a TON of tank for dps at range
-Change the T2 ammo for rails so that they offer unique bonuses instead of generic trading of range for dps/dps for range
-Assault cruisers like the Eagle and Demios still have no place in a fleet, whether it be null sec or low sec warfare.

Other than me griping about rails still being terrible, the blaster side of the hybrids looks GREAT!


Only makes sense if sniping did overwhelming DPS, which it doesn't. Maybe be more applicable if you weren't limited on max targeting range, but that is not the case.

Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
[quote=xo3e]
(I'm also a bit suprised, I know Caldari are more ranged hybrids, but I didn't realize Caldari had so few blaster boats? I didn't see Caldari AF mentioned at all .. and rails on a harpy are well ... hmmmmmm: Subject to individual opinion)


Probably because when you tank a Caldari ship you explode its sig. They're more rail oriented because they need to stay out of optimal as much as possible. Doesn't help that the ships already have higher sigs than average even without shield mods.
Jade Greenfire
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#308 - 2011-10-31 20:30:53 UTC
Question for you CCP Tallest:

I realise this is for ships, but I am curious as to what changes you plan for hybrid POS guns/batteries to make them effective & attractive alternate to the standard projectile & lazers batteries?
Seems they need some rebalancing love too.
Jane Idoka
gratia aeternum bellum
#309 - 2011-10-31 20:31:44 UTC
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
Hmmm, I am now motivated to make a stupidly simple analogy for what you're saying about blasters vs all other weapon types.

You give a person a shotgun (Gallente ship with blasters), you give the opponent an assault rifle (Minmatar ship with AC's). You place these two people in an open field at 50m (any place in space where the ships do not land on top of each other). The person with the shotgun is actually Aretha Franklin, while the person with the AR is Usain Bolt. Usain is able to run at full speed while shooting his gun and never missing, while Aretha "runs" while shooting and never hitting. Sure, it'll take a few hits before she goes down, but she has absolutely no chance to ever hit her target. NOW BOOST HER SPEED BY 10%!!!!

And you tell me this is fair?



+1 for giving Aretha Franklin a shotgun... Cool
PhantomTrojan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2011-10-31 20:37:35 UTC
This will make most of the hybrid weapon close somehow to balanced, but still almost every gallente "ship" need some kind of buff because this is nowhere near enough to make the Diemost viable or even the brutix, atarte and eos. I also think that the blaster need a decent damage buff of 5-10%, to compensate for the half of ur ehp lost approaching to the target if you can catch up...
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#311 - 2011-10-31 20:38:14 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Quote:
Before we start looking at armor tanking issues or individual ships, Hybrid weapons as a whole need to be boosted up to a level where using them becomes desirable.


Highlighted for those who I think glossed over this. However it seems they aren't done with Gallente/Hybrids just yet.
Lets not forget how long it took them to look at hybrids in the first placeBlink

I guess we'll see them looking at blasterboats around, oh i dont know 2015? (and thats if we're lucky)

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#312 - 2011-10-31 20:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
Hmmm, I am now motivated to make a stupidly simple analogy for what you're saying about blasters vs all other weapon types.

You give a person a shotgun (Gallente ship with blasters), you give the opponent an assault rifle (Minmatar ship with AC's). You place these two people in an open field at 50m (any place in space where the ships do not land on top of each other). The person with the shotgun is actually Aretha Franklin, while the person with the AR is Usain Bolt. Usain is able to run at full speed while shooting his gun and never missing, while Aretha "runs" while shooting and never hitting. Sure, it'll take a few hits before she goes down, but she has absolutely no chance to ever hit her target. NOW BOOST HER SPEED BY 10%!!!!

And you tell me this is fair?



this is awesome !!!!
+1 from me

Could not have sayd it more clear and funny :) You Sir are my hero <3

per request : This Post can be found on Page 11 :>
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#313 - 2011-10-31 20:39:38 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Got through about 1/2 of the posts here, and I think many of you need to get on EFT and try some new loadouts, using the new stats, before you rant and rave about the proposed rebalancing.


Spoken like someone who's got no experience flying a hybrid platform.


yeah i know eh the thing with pre boosted blasters is on eft they looked awesome... but we need more than just on paper awesome...we need in game awesome and the boost from CCP Tallest will just make them look better on paper but not in practice


Indeed, mainly because we need to evaluate the effects the inertia modification is going to have in game, which is something EFT really can't tell us.

If the accelleration increase is significant enough, the subtle benefits could very well put this thing over the top as far a win factor goes.

ArrowOne other factor that is very subtle, but could have a significant overall effect would be a reduction for Gallante boats Signature Radius. If it takes a bit longer to target them and get a scram/web on them that lets the better accelleration pay off larger dividends.

Justify it as a function of their organic hull designs, or perhaps an inherent part of all Gallante tech due to their knowledge of Sensor Dampning tech.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
OOooole
#314 - 2011-10-31 20:41:14 UTC
after 2 yers this OMFG
Damage Increase:

All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier

and speed joke boost ? realy

Winter patch will be anothre joke


bye bye maybe i com back whe we boost black ops Account Expires 18 January 2012 - 1:38 pm (in 4 days)
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#315 - 2011-10-31 20:42:07 UTC
Blasters could still use more damage. Since their optimal and falloff is low and the most often operate in falloff, they need a bigger damage advantage in comparison to pulse lasers, either that or increased optimal and falloff.

The penalties on Void should also be reduced because right now there is no point in even using this ammo.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#316 - 2011-10-31 20:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Pretty pleased with all the listed changes. Looking forward to flying all the web-bonused hybrid platforms this winter.

Love the across the board T2 closerange ammo reform. I'm hard just thinking about it.

One request for an additional change: the Thorax and its derivatives all need an additional mid-slot. This would allow them to do scram/web/booster/propmod in an armor configuration or scram/2x lse/prop in a shield configuration. Both are sort of necessary for their respective roles (a slow armor setup needs that web, an unbonused shield tank needs 2 LSEs to get an acceptable quantity of EHP). Personally I would also apply +1 mid to the Vigilant as well, since its current configuration makes it "useable" rather than "better than average"-- not what you'd expect from an extremely expensive faction cruiser. The Deimos and Thorax definitely need a fourth mid though... like *need* need.

I always find myself shedding a tear for the Deimos in particular-- with another mid it would be such a fantastic workhorse HAC for people who are hard for closerange obliteration, but as it is it's just too useless. It wants a scram/web/sensor booster or injector (depending on the type of armor tank you use) in an armor setup and a scram/dual LSE/prop configuration for a shieldtanked nano setup. Either of these would be very practical and fun to fly. Instead, with its current layout, the Deimos' only use is as a dirt-cheap, second-class citizen sniper HAC approximation that is outperformed significantly by every other HAC but at least manages to be cheap.
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#317 - 2011-10-31 20:47:00 UTC
KFenn wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Blaster need more changes for better working.


At least +50% optimal (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 4.5km optimal with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills) and at least +25% faloff (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 13km faloff with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills)

After this changes would be 6.75km optimal, with 16.25km falloff. (antimatter)

Stop trying to make blasters like autocannons. They're -NOT- autocannons.

Autocannons = Assault Rifles. Blasters = Shotguns. Huge damage at zero range.


Please dont post anymore.

Assault rifle ? Shotgun ? :D megauberlol
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#318 - 2011-10-31 20:50:18 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:

Spoken like someone who's got no experience flying a hybrid platform.

I suppose so. I've only been flying Gallente gunboats for 3.5 years, with 18 million SP in guns. I apologize for being presumptuous.
Perdition64
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2011-10-31 20:53:22 UTC
Raimo wrote:
Valarie Rikeen wrote:

We can see that DPS is not too far apart, (768 dps vs 592 dps), yet the speed of a hurricane is 1434 m/s vs the Brutix's 1112 m/s (before the change). Tank is only different by 4k EHP.

thats not really "close" brutix has 25% more damage. also, remember you are comparing a tier 1 BC with a tier 2



Just needed to correct this, read my later post, the real 3 damage mod gank fit overload DPS figures are 965 for Brutix and 905 for Hurricane, sans implants.

Also, the tier system is ******** anyway so it's not a good justification, and in the Gallente case, Brutix is the gank BC anyway Myrm. gank DPS vs Cane is even worse, Myrm ganks for only 868 so fix Hybrids AND Drones, eh?


Yeah, dont come to me for fits, I lost my database and have only rumbled back from my slumber BECAUSE of the possibility of where this patch could go.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#320 - 2011-10-31 20:58:37 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:

Spoken like someone who's got no experience flying a hybrid platform.

I suppose so. I've only been flying Gallente gunboats for 3.5 years, with 18 million SP in guns. I apologize for being presumptuous.


I would have stuck with having no experience, tbh. You don't help you case by proving you have no excuse to be so ignorant.