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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#401 - 2013-04-11 13:58:31 UTC
Nope.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Kaz Mafaele
D-sync
D-sync.
#402 - 2013-04-11 13:58:34 UTC
Everything looks good and that certainly includes the phoon but it sure would be nice to be able to field a full flight of heavy drones still.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#403 - 2013-04-11 14:01:12 UTC
RIP discophoon

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Cy4nid3
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#404 - 2013-04-11 14:08:01 UTC
Quote:
Luke Hammarskjold wrote:
I really liked the phoon before, but with the reduced drone capabilities I dont think it will be so awesome...



I like new Phoon. U already tried some fittings ?
Smaller dronebay isn't really a problem. Ur main damage are the launchers now and with torps u get a massive anmount of DPS and volley. U can still deploy up to 4 Sentry drones which further raise DPS and they should be able as well to kill NPC frigs as long as they're not tooo close.
The Phoon's high velocity is an other great condition for torp fittings combinet with small + med drones against frigs and cruisers.
If u further use an armor tanked fit u have enough med slots for TPs , propmods, cap rechargers ...
And last but not least u still have an empty highslot for vamps or cap transfers (if u fly with 2 accs).

Imo the phoon will raise to one of the best PVE T1 BS after the change assumed torps won't get completly nerfed with the announced BS missile rebalance.
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#405 - 2013-04-11 14:16:55 UTC
Is there a reason that the new Navy BC's have more raw hp than the attack BS?

Tempest: Give it one more low maybe, I use the fleet already and it works well with the 7 lows.

Mael: Works well, but I would still give it a tad more shield hp.

Phoon: Give it back some of the drone bay, at least 125 (150) to carry a full load of heavy/sentries and a spare rack of lights. No other Minnie BS has the option with the changes.
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#406 - 2013-04-11 15:53:34 UTC
As an attack battleship, the tempest's damage output is a bit anemic. I'd really like to see it gain a 7th turret slot and the fittings to use it. If this doesn't happen, the tempest will be "meh" compared to the attack ships of the other races as well as its same-race competitor, the typhoon.

If it does happen, the tempest will again become what it once was back before 2007 and will fit the Minmatar mold of (paraphrased since I don't remember the exact quote) "flying Minmatar is like riding a chair down the stairs while firing an uzi" (i.e. speed, damage, sub-par defenses).
Dredastttarm
0x31A9D8F2
#407 - 2013-04-11 16:35:12 UTC
Anyone else think that maybe the Minmatar should have 2 attack battleships and 1 combat battleship? Wouldn't that make more sense for the Minmatar? Also, I am completely pissed about the phoon becoming another Caldari ship... Don't we have enough shield/missile ships already?

I make YouTube videos and so on... Watch me do silly things here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Internetzspacezshipz?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#408 - 2013-04-11 16:36:30 UTC
Dredastttarm wrote:
Anyone else think that maybe the Minmatar should have 2 attack battleships and 1 combat battleship? Wouldn't that make more sense for the Minmatar? Also, I am completely pissed about the phoon becoming another Caldari ship... Don't we have enough shield/missile ships already?



Dude... you are days late.. they aready changed into 2 attack and 1 combat.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#409 - 2013-04-11 16:37:59 UTC
Dredastttarm wrote:
Anyone else think that maybe the Minmatar should have 2 attack battleships and 1 combat battleship? Wouldn't that make more sense for the Minmatar? Also, I am completely pissed about the phoon becoming another Caldari ship... Don't we have enough shield/missile ships already?


Its actually pretty damn good if you mess with the fittings. It does however need its full Drone bay back and the turrets removed. Its pointless having the unbonused turrets on it.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#410 - 2013-04-11 16:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Maelstrom: No change: OK
Tempest: A little on the slow side or should become a real shield tanker with 7/6/6
Typhoon: Pretty good so far, maybe a little bit more grid/fittings.

Either way, drastic changes from this point would probably upset more people than they would please. Just tweaks needed I think.



To be frank I stil woudl prefer tempest as 7/5/7 because then we have an oficial armor tanker (I suspect the phoon will be used much more as a shield FAT BC / FAT stealth bomber.


It's a sad state of affairs when every one wants to shield tank everything because armor tanking is sub-par now a days in most realms. Even in the Gallente thread the calls to shield tank the mega makes my skin crawl but can I really blame them? As I stated before I would love a 7/5/7 armor pest, but that is more of a want rather than an element of balance or rather I can't out right say it needs it.

Especially since the stats of the other battleships still seem to be in flux. What I can say is I don't think the mega should be faster than the tempest. The same perhaps but not faster, the mega already sports more dps and tank with it's 8 lows. it shouldn't outclass the tempest in the realm of speed as well.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#411 - 2013-04-11 16:41:53 UTC
TheFace Asano wrote:
Is there a reason that the new Navy BC's have more raw hp than the attack BS?



yeah, the price tag.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#412 - 2013-04-11 16:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
edit: I hate the redirect when I hit post and it takes you to the reply page and swallows your edits
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#413 - 2013-04-11 16:46:20 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Maelstrom: No change: OK
Tempest: A little on the slow side or should become a real shield tanker with 7/6/6
Typhoon: Pretty good so far, maybe a little bit more grid/fittings.

Either way, drastic changes from this point would probably upset more people than they would please. Just tweaks needed I think.



To be frank I stil woudl prefer tempest as 7/5/7 because then we have an oficial armor tanker (I suspect the phoon will be used much more as a shield FAT BC / FAT stealth bomber.


It's a sad state of affairs when every one wants to shield tank everything because armor tanking is sub-par now a days in most realms. Even in the Gallente thread the calls to shield tank the mega makes my skin crawl but can I really blame them? As I stated before I would love a 7/5/7 armor pest, but that is more of a want rather than an element of balance or rather I can't out right say it needs it.

Especially since the stats of the other battleships still seem to be in flux. What I can say is I don't think the mega should be faster than the tempest. The same perhaps but not faster, the mega already sports more dps and tank it shouldn't outclass the tempest in all realms.



To be fair.. current tempest proposl has MORE tank thatn current mega proposal. Only the mega low slots cancel that completely. And taht is the problem

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#414 - 2013-04-11 17:06:38 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

To be fair.. current tempest proposl has MORE tank thatn current mega proposal. Only the mega low slots cancel that completely. And taht is the problem


I was thinking of the 8 lows on the mega when I made my post perhaps I shouldn't have. So what do you think the problem is really and what is your solution to it?
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2013-04-11 17:36:50 UTC
The previous Tempest iteration was better than what's up here now.
The people complaining about the signature radius are high.
Now the ship is woefully inadequate compared to every other BS.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#416 - 2013-04-11 17:48:59 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
The previous Tempest iteration was better than what's up here now.
The people complaining about the signature radius are high.
Now the ship is woefully inadequate compared to every other BS.



You are the one high. The 2 secodns extra that other battleships take to lock a tempest provide WAY more Effective hitpoints thatn the little bit it lost. Its very adequate for qhen you want to oerate in an attack role, kill somethign and get out. Very minmatar and much more interesting that simply having more HP taht is a role the tempest would ALWAYS loose to the abaddon.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#417 - 2013-04-11 18:01:17 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

To be fair.. current tempest proposl has MORE tank thatn current mega proposal. Only the mega low slots cancel that completely. And taht is the problem


I was thinking of the 8 lows on the mega when I made my post perhaps I shouldn't have. So what do you think the problem is really and what is your solution to it?



My opinion is that EVE has become a specialization game. That means you must be good at something that is your focus.


The tempest is simply stuck into 2 bonuses that do the same thing but still not well enough to compensate its 6 turrets and low drone bay size AND lack of enough low slots to fit tank and several damage modules. its a counter productive ship. All tis bonus goes to damage but all its slots layout produces is a subpar shield tanker or a n armor tanker without possibility for enough damage.

The fact that 1 damage mod makes MORE DIFFERENCE than 1 of the tempest bonus is the reason for that. the tempest with only 1 bonus but +1 free low slot would be STRONGER than it currently is.


Tempest would need a 7th low to compete directly with the megatron in a combat scenario usign its current bonuses. That means -1H +1 low

Or it can be made even more minmatar. Reduce tempest to 7k/7k/6.5k. increase its speed to 125ms. Increase its agility to .11


Or you can make the tempest into a different boat. I would love a really different ship. Something like 7.5% rof per level and 15% AB bonus per level (and reduce its mass to close to megathron levels) . I know its niche, but its very minmatar and would not need any slot changes.

There are lot of options, but the real issue of the tempest is related to its slot layout being inefficient for a damage focused ship ( taking from 2 damage bonus on the hull).



If i was to redesign the minmatar line as a whole. I would have made almost the same typhoon as rise. But would have changed the other 2. Would have made the maelstrom 5% rof 10% hitpoint of shield per level. Slow.. a true SHIP OF THE LINE. Would have made the tempest a 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost per level and 7/6/6 or 8/6/5, 100mbit bay. But faster than any battleship But the typhoon.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#418 - 2013-04-11 19:04:06 UTC
I liked the tempest sig at 420. Cool

PIZZA CEO
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#419 - 2013-04-11 19:09:41 UTC
Junko Sideswipe wrote:
I liked the tempest sig at 420. Cool



Trolling is not helpful.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#420 - 2013-04-11 19:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Junko Sideswipe
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Trolling is not helpful.


Wasn't trolling, I liked it.

Phoon was fine with just torps, I liked that idea a lot. The majority of people in the thread don't even know how missiles, especially torps, actually work in the game, so they hurf blurf about it.

Edit: Check my post # Cool

PIZZA CEO