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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Alek Row
Silent Step
#301 - 2013-04-10 14:15:52 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:

It would go from 8/5/6 to 7/6/6 unless I'm missing something.
Either way, additional speed and agility is needed if it's to remain armour centric.


My bad my bad, forget what I wrote. I like the 766.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#302 - 2013-04-10 14:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
I know the shield tankers are salivating over the concept of a 7/6/6 tempest but as an armor tanker that 6th mid doesn't bring much to the table. And I imagine those calling for a falloff bonus are looking for a poor man's Mach.

I don't fault them for those wants. But they don't match my own. I rather have the slot lay and hull bonuses to remain the same as they fit my style of play better. *shrugs*


As for the rest of the stats I do find it odd that the mega is faster than the tempest.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#303 - 2013-04-10 14:30:46 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:



You are very limited if you cannot understand reality. Therefore I will waste my time posting only once more. Ship presence in killmails are not direclty related to performace. They would only if all ships had same skill requirements and same cost. Also peopel do not sop usign ships that thye had trained as soon as the ships are nerfed, therefor takes at least 1 year for a nerf to effect the killboards completely.


Also blindness cannot see that pulses are as good as AC and that balsters are also very good. The current issue is that no one wants to commit to clsoe range therefore reducign blasters usability. But that is not blasters fault. You coudl increase their dps by 3 fold and the problem would remain. That problem is because of current tacklign range that is too large, not turret issue.


The sensor strenght were buffed on ALL races. Because its a CPC atatck on ECM. Nothign related to minamtar. Leave your fanboyism hatred outside this thread. You are full of prejudice and unable to see things clearly.


I will let you digest that information because more could be too much for you to understand. Now let the people that understand a bit more continue the proper discussion.


Im very limited and cant understand , so stop posting. thx
ship presence in killmails are not directly related to performance??heh , better ships used more , more used means more killmails for them , what is not related there?
yes they stop using the nerfed ones when they can fly better ships , for some it takes time , for many they can already fly those ships it clearly doesnt take 1 year , maybe 2-3 months max

"The current issue is that no one wants to commit to clsoe range" that only means one thing that the blaster doest offer enough advantages over the longer ranged weapons , but hey i m blind so i cant see it
if ccp would increase blaster dps by 3times i would use them nearly all the time, see that way the blasters advantages would outshine their disadvantages,
the problem is not the tackling range is too large, the problem is that the longer ranged race is also the faster winmatar style :D

about sensor strenght , just look at the curret t1 battleships ideas , only matar battleships got their increased and the geddon which had realy low one, and ecm nerf support the race which is the weakest vs ecm , and that is matar

i dont have to diggest any information cause you didnt give any , you just blablad about something you think is right without any proof

oh yeah go back to the people who agree winmatar needs more boosts and 0 nerfs , matar fanboys stick togeather in these dark times , if you dont whine enough maybe you loose matar dominance :)

btw what discussions were here? that the tempest should keep its promised hp buff and also keep its mobility, oh no it should get even better mobility, so will it be combat (tanky) or attack (mobile, dps) bs ,or minmatar stlye both at the same time , oh checking it again it was you who think this is what ccp should do
or
that the thyphoon while slowly getting more launcer than the raven from 4 to 6 at is currently stands ,being already bc fast and small sign also should get better mobility and sneakily Rise just changed the signature to 330 from what was suggested last time 360? I cant remember .
isnt typhoon the same role (attack)as the raven , then why the raven 420m signature r? or just look at the scorp 480m , yeah it totally support superior sensor system
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2013-04-10 14:31:01 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
I know the shield tankers are salivating over the concept of a 7/6/6 tempest but as an armor tanker that 6th mid doesn't bring much to the table. So I rather have it stay 8/5/6 myself.

As for the rest of the stats I do find it odd that the mega is faster than the tempest.



The extra mid can be used for a track computer . or some soft e -war. OR you could simply bide for a low slot instead of mid :P
7/5/7 would be nice as well.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#305 - 2013-04-10 14:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
Kagura Nikon wrote:

The extra mid can be used for a track computer . or some soft e -war. OR you could simply bide for a low slot instead of mid :P
7/5/7 would be nice as well.


Well with 5 slots you can do prop, web, point, and a TC and E-war on a armor tank if you want or any number of other interesting combos.. a 6th slot.. seems over kill

I would love a 7/5/7, I won't lie but I think some people might feel that would put the ship in the realm of armor tanking too strongly. Even though there is the Maelstrom as the shield gunboat. I can understand why people that like to shield tank, wouldn't favor it due to it's speed and agility. I just don't want the shield tankers to push the tempest to much in to their realm.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#306 - 2013-04-10 14:49:14 UTC
Personally I think they should stick with the 8/5/6 layout. Adding another slot either way is pigeon holing a ship which has always been able to dual tank into only being really good at one or the other, and also losing the extra utility slot which is important for nuet and other such fits.

I also really like the fact that you can now shield tank the Typhoon with the addition of a mid slot which wasn't previously possible.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2013-04-10 14:54:25 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Personally I think they should stick with the 8/5/6 layout. Adding another slot either way is pigeon holing a ship which has always been able to dual tank into only being really good at one or the other, and also losing the extra utility slot which is important for nuet and other such fits.

I also really like the fact that you can now shield tank the Typhoon with the addition of a mid slot which wasn't previously possible.



The thing is the dual neuting will be almost irrelevant now. If you want a neut ship you will bring the geddon. 1 neut is enough to deal with frigates. That is why i Think would be a MINIMAL loss.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#308 - 2013-04-10 14:56:29 UTC
I like everything except the Typhoon having its Drones nerfed. The ability to field a full set of Heavies and still have enough bay to bring additional flights of Light drones was one of the major things that always drew me to the Typhoon.
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#309 - 2013-04-10 14:58:29 UTC
As all battleships tend to bit a bit sluggish and slow difference between combat and attack battleships seems to be quite small. Have you considered giving special role bonuses to attack BS to accentuate the difference between two classes?

I was thinking adding something like this to attack BC would make them more distinct:

Role bonus: -25% MWD capacitor consumption


or

Role bonus: -50% in overheat damage generated by overheated afterburners

This would not make them faster but would allow them to keep at maximum speed longer. Also you don’t have to give same role bonus to all attack BS, you can give different role bonus to each race, or to even to each ship, again to make them more distinct.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...

Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#310 - 2013-04-10 15:05:52 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

The thing is the dual neuting will be almost irrelevant now. If you want a neut ship you will bring the geddon. 1 neut is enough to deal with frigates. That is why i Think would be a MINIMAL loss.


Yes, although the Tempest will be much faster and with a lower sig than the Armageddon, and also should put out much more dps. So it may find some use in smaller lighter shield gangs still. I'm not sure how its going to play out at the meta level, but something tells me that the Tempest should keep the two spare high slots rather than focusing on shield tanking or armour tanking.

Giving it a mid or low is simply going to pigeon hole it and make it inefficient to fit anything but the tank which has the most mid or low slots available.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#311 - 2013-04-10 15:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
I like everything except the Typhoon having its Drones nerfed. The ability to field a full set of Heavies and still have enough bay to bring additional flights of Light drones was one of the major things that always drew me to the Typhoon.


I think they should go with something like this for the Typhoon. If the DPS is still a bit low by removing the launcher hardpoint then you could always increase the rate of fire bonus to 7.5%

This way the Typhoon still can fully utilise all 3 weapon systems, including a decently sized drone bay, and does not simply become and armoured Raven.

Typhoon:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher explosion velocity

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets, 5 launchers (-1)
Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500 / 6000 / 6000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1087s / 4.97
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11 / 103600000 / 15.8
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 (+25) / 200 (+100)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 330[/quote]
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2013-04-10 15:19:46 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

The thing is the dual neuting will be almost irrelevant now. If you want a neut ship you will bring the geddon. 1 neut is enough to deal with frigates. That is why i Think would be a MINIMAL loss.


Yes, although the Tempest will be much faster and with a lower sig than the Armageddon, and also should put out much more dps. So it may find some use in smaller lighter shield gangs still. I'm not sure how its going to play out at the meta level, but something tells me that the Tempest should keep the two spare high slots rather than focusing on shield tanking or armour tanking.

Giving it a mid or low is simply going to pigeon hole it and make it inefficient to fit anything but the tank which has the most mid or low slots available.



that is why I love 6/6.. stilll equaly unperfect for either tank :P The classical tempest inneficieny in a whole new level :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#313 - 2013-04-10 15:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
If you go for an armour tank though then what are you going to do with 6 midslots? 1 prop mod for sure, but then you have 5 extra slots to fill when 4 is already plenty. Yeah sure having 6 mid slots is nice, but its a little overkill for an armour tanking ship.

It will be always better to simply fit a nice shield tank and then stack the low slots with damage mods if you for for a 7/6/6 layout.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#314 - 2013-04-10 15:26:31 UTC
Awesome changes props to CCP team now i rly want to see what fleet hulls changes gonna be.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2013-04-10 15:29:25 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
If you go for an armour tank though then what are you going to do with 6 midslots? 1 prop mod for sure, but then you have 5 extra slots to fill when 4 is already plenty. Yeah sure having 6 mid slots is nice, but its a little overkill for an armour tanking ship.

It will be always better to simply fit a nice shield tank and then stack the low slots with damage mods if you for for a 7/6/6 layout.



Oo i can find very good uses. Sensor booster if I am camping. Track computer and track disruptor if I want to fight larger ships. Plus MWD, CAP Injector (neut is useles swithout it), Web, Scram.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#316 - 2013-04-10 15:30:08 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Oo i can find very good uses. Sensor booster if I am camping. Track computer and track disruptor if I want to fight larger ships. Plus MWD, CAP Injector (neut is useles swithout it), Web, Scram.


Also bear in mind a damage control is always included in every fit, so the actual layout of the Tempest at the moment is actually 8/5/5 if you account for the obligatory damage control.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#317 - 2013-04-10 15:31:05 UTC
Garresh wrote:
I like the phoon losing a launcher for more drones. Meh.


Me too. It would be less powerful but it would retain the "spirit"
Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#318 - 2013-04-10 15:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Deornoth Drake
CCP Rise wrote:


Typhoon:

...snip...

UPDATE: Based on feedback we are lowering the Typhoon's signature radius a bit, and also giving back its turrets(though they will not be bonused) to offer some more flexibility.

... snip ...

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-125) / 100(-75)


I would swap the old drone stats for the turrets
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#319 - 2013-04-10 15:40:06 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Oo i can find very good uses. Sensor booster if I am camping. Track computer and track disruptor if I want to fight larger ships. Plus MWD, CAP Injector (neut is useles swithout it), Web, Scram.


Also bear in mind a damage control is always included in every fit, so the actual layout of the Tempest at the moment is actually 8/5/5 if you account for the obligatory damage control.



That is not a valid statement. ALL battleship use DC II. So ALL battleships loose 1 low :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Sparkus Volundar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2013-04-10 15:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sparkus Volundar
Dear CCP Rise,

The Tempest has been fun in a "it's a BC+" kind of way for some time now but in particular with several other BS hulls slated for significant tanking buffs from slot changes (e.g. Raven, [armour] Scorp, Mega and Hyp), I think it's time for the Tempest to be improved a bit more than gaining HPs at the expensive of Sig Radius. Especially with 6 lows being poorer for armour tanking relative to Gallente changes.

Ideas (not a suggestion to use both):
1) The moving of a utility High to a Mid or Low slot.
2) Different bonuses (7.5% ROF and 5% Fallout or Tracking, and 100 drone BW).

Regards,
Sparks

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