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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Jack C Hughes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#641 - 2013-04-10 14:10:53 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Jack C Hughes wrote:
Also, hands off of the 8-turret Apocalypse.


I am just a bit interested in the last sentence, why must it has 8 turret?

Because it is designed to be thatway.[/quote]

design does not mean anything
we have 4 turrets on a paladin and 4 on a Vargur(6 for tempest)
we used to have 7 on a harbinger and it is not even mirror image allocated.

what's the point for a ship that has range bonus and sniping potencial has 8 turret, when it can never actually fit 8 of the largest long range weapon of the race?
Dentt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2013-04-10 14:17:32 UTC
When you changed the omen, you borrowed the bonus from the current geddon, so by that notion you'll be changing the omen to this long range neut fit then I assume? since the ROF bonus and cap use is so unbalanced? There's no direction with these changes, no consistency. Drop these proposed geddon changes and come back with something viable and not totally gamebreaking.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#643 - 2013-04-10 14:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
Rynnik wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Rynnik wrote:
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret damage and optimal range
+7.5% Large Energy Turret tracking speed (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Fixed the bonuses for a 6 turret Apoc. It brings it in just above the current 8 effective turrets at level 5.

1. It makes the ship 3-bonused. Which is unlikely to happen.
2. Please leave 8-turret Apocalypse alone. It is designed to work that way.


Only if you accept that the Domi is going to be 4-bonused.

Nop. I see combined drone bonus as role bonus - it is there to prevent drone abuse by non-drone-based ships (besides, drone ships have 1 less slot to play with).

Quote:
Which there is a very good reason for based on drones etc and that CCP seems perfectly happy with. So really that isn't an issue

for drones it's not an issue.

Quote:
I am not saying this is the best or only solution but at least it is SOME attempt to consolidate the issues of slot repetition for all 3 ships, cap usage, Tach fitting while achieving their tracking/optimal bonused platform intent.

The current intent is to differentiate the hulls. Not consolidate them. But in case of Amarr, the attempt is just fell on it's face. We already have 2 distinct ships, fairly good at their roles, just need some small tweaks. What CCP Rise did is he screwed currently working imperial scheme and put some communistic blasphemy in replacement.
It didn't worked well in 1917... do you think it would work in 2013?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#644 - 2013-04-10 14:19:36 UTC
abaddon has worse cap issues than apocalypse.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#645 - 2013-04-10 14:21:21 UTC
Jack C Hughes wrote:
design does not mean anything
we have 4 turrets on a paladin and 4 on a Vargur(6 for tempest)
we used to have 7 on a harbinger and it is not even mirror image allocated.

what's the point for a ship that has range bonus and sniping potencial has 8 turret, when it can never actually fit 8 of the largest long range weapon of the race?

Design does mean everything. /shoo (Also, you can fit 8... just not Tachyons. Still want Tachyons? Get some RCU onboard. It IS possible, and it DO works well. When the time call for it.)

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#646 - 2013-04-10 14:22:26 UTC
Jureth22 wrote:
abaddon has worse cap issues than apocalypse.

That's only because it's misused and, frankly, lack any role.
Make it a drone boat, and all cap issues will be taken over by overtanking it to death.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#647 - 2013-04-10 14:24:35 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
OP updated for some slight tweaks to the Apocalypse and Armageddon. Cap stability increase for Apoc and a powergrid tweak for the armageddon.


Ok, you have fixed the cap issues on the Apoc, and for that, a very hearty THANK YOU!

But, wtf, you've nerfed the PG on the 'Geddon even more?

Also, you still haven't done anything with the Abaddon, either in giving it some more cap so it can better fit to counter the lost resist, or given it more HP to directly balance it.

Overall, i have to say I am not happy.
Jack C Hughes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#648 - 2013-04-10 14:28:13 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Jack C Hughes wrote:
design does not mean anything
we have 4 turrets on a paladin and 4 on a Vargur(6 for tempest)
we used to have 7 on a harbinger and it is not even mirror image allocated.

what's the point for a ship that has range bonus and sniping potencial has 8 turret, when it can never actually fit 8 of the largest long range weapon of the race?

Design does mean everything. /shoo (Also, you can fit 8... just not Tachyons. Still want Tachyons? Get some RCU onboard. It IS possible, and it DO works well. When the time call for it.)


well if you think that is called "could fit" and "works well" I have nothing to say.

If design means everyhing Marcs should have 8 turrets insead of 7, it clearly have 8 places for turrets on its hull.
And why not Tachs?
We got 8*425 Rokh, 8*1400 Mealstorms that does have decent tank AND dps.
If you wish you can have a old hypo with 8*425, but that's not what it is designed to look like.
but nothing even similar for Amarr, not even with Abaddon.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#649 - 2013-04-10 14:29:18 UTC
AspiB'elt wrote:
Dear CCP.

Can you explain something to me.

Amarr are very nice long range weapon (tachyon) .

But it's impossible to fit them on the ship.

You can put tachyon only on the oracle or Abaddon .

Can you explain why ?

Actually, you can't fit a full rack of Tachs onto an Abaddon any easier then you can an Apoc, both require mods/rigs to give it more PG to do so. Which is really stupid, when as someone else pointed out earlier, all 3 other races can fit their equivalent weapon system after the changes without such usage of slots.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#650 - 2013-04-10 14:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
Neither Rokh, nor Maelstrom have that many lows.
Mael have 6 I recall, and Rokh have same or even less.

(I don't say, that Apocalypse PG don't need buff, it may, but it all depends on it's intended role. Just because you WANT to effortlessly fit 8 guns, doesn't mean it's feasible for design purposes. And I still think that more guns without damage bonus works better than less guns with bonus.
Especially in light of this thread.
Fewer guns with skill-intensive bonuses makes it hard for new players to compete with the rest of the fleet.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#651 - 2013-04-10 14:30:49 UTC
Rynnik wrote:
All three of these BS share 4 mids, 7 lows. You may have diversified away from lasers on all of them but you sure didn't shake up much else - especially in light of a Gallente 8 low BS. How about a Hyperion treatment with double damage bonus on 6 turrets for the Apoc. That further assists the cap issues and allows a slot to be reallocated to the lows.

^^^^ This. You've already given the Dominix as a T1 hull a Role bonus (the only one I've yet seen in the game, btw), you could very well do the same with the Apoc.
Jack C Hughes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#652 - 2013-04-10 14:31:49 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Neither Rokh, nor Maelstrom have that many lows.
Mael have 6 I recall, and rokh have smae or even less.


but they have their desired mid.
Amarr is struggling between dps and tank and now you say you will use that low slot for reactors?
Jack C Hughes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#653 - 2013-04-10 14:33:29 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Rynnik wrote:
All three of these BS share 4 mids, 7 lows. You may have diversified away from lasers on all of them but you sure didn't shake up much else - especially in light of a Gallente 8 low BS. How about a Hyperion treatment with double damage bonus on 6 turrets for the Apoc. That further assists the cap issues and allows a slot to be reallocated to the lows.

^^^^ This. You've already given the Dominix as a T1 hull a Role bonus (the only one I've yet seen in the game, btw), you could very well do the same with the Apoc.


all attack frigs do have role bonus
and where is the role bouns for domi? I did not see any.


Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#654 - 2013-04-10 14:35:00 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Armageddon:

This is a fun one. Bet you guys didn't think my first two projects would be to slow down the Talos and throw the old Armageddon out the window! But! I think its the best thing for the race line overall. What we've done here is make the Armageddon an echo to the new dragoon destroyer. It makes sense for Amarr to have a battleship variation that rewards players who've trained for dragoon -> arbitrator -> prophecy, and with the neut range bonus, the Armageddon should be a huge payoff. As the Armageddon is falling under 'combat' it will receive a substantial hitpoint boost, sensor strength boost, sig increase, and speed decrease.

While we understand that this is a very powerful ship, it should not be oppressive. Hopefully it will offer a new type of challenge to fly and fly against. To anyone who is very sad to see the old Armageddon go, I encourage to you consider that if left the same, it would have been even more crowded by the Abaddon as a result of the price adjustment than it already was. Again, we look forward to your feedback.

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M(+1), 7L(-1); 5 turrets(-2) , 5 launchers(+5)
Fittings: 13500 PWG(-3000), 550 CPU(+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(+1331) / 8500(+1859) / 8000(+1789)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6200(+887.5) / 1087s / 5.7
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 100(-5) / .13(+.002) / 105200000 / 18.96s (+.29)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(+250)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Radar Sensor Strength (+4)
Signature radius: 450 (+80)


/facepalm
Double one.
Killed an othervise good ship, that were in need of just a few tweaks... I have no words.

If by killed you mean made more powerful, sure. Smile

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Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#655 - 2013-04-10 14:35:06 UTC
Seeing as the Megathron and Hyperion got insane buffs on your last pass over, I think the main armor, laser boat of the Amarr should get a buff as well.

These changes would be very becoming of the Abaddon:

-2 high slots, make it 10% damage per level --> like the hyperion got.
+1 low, so 8 lows --> like the Megathron got.

Amarr is the armor race. The Abaddon is supposed to be a massive brick. If the megathron is getting an 8th low, the Abaddon needs one too.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#656 - 2013-04-10 14:36:10 UTC
Jack C Hughes wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Neither Rokh, nor Maelstrom have that many lows.
Mael have 6 I recall, and rokh have smae or even less.


but they have their desired mid.
Amarr is struggling between dps and tank and now you say you will use that low slot for reactors?


I hit "Post" too early, please check back the the edited post. Sorry for inconvenience.
Also, relating to DPS and tank, if capacitor issues are resolved, Apocalypse could use a resistance bonus... if that would not make it a copy of the Rokh...

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#657 - 2013-04-10 14:37:54 UTC
No.

Just more power grid on the abaddon and your golden. What ever happens it's still an EHP monster.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#658 - 2013-04-10 14:38:01 UTC
Jack C Hughes wrote:
The 6 turret idea is interesting. Lets have sth like 6 turrets+10%damage+range, with 7high 4mid 8low
so that is a 9 turret dps laser platform, lower dps and lower mobility than oracle, but better tank and range.

and a new beam platform? right?

^^^^ This, yet again, wtih a role bonus to either RoF or Damage.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#659 - 2013-04-10 14:38:06 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Armageddon:


/facepalm
Double one.
Killed an othervise good ship, that were in need of just a few tweaks... I have no words.

If by killed you mean made more powerful, sure. Smile

By killed I mean killed. Armageddon was already a good example of how to design an attack BS. But CCP Rise seems to accidentally decided, that "BS" means "bullshit", in this case...

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Loki Vice
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#660 - 2013-04-10 14:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Vice
CCP Rise wrote:
OP updated for some slight tweaks to the Apocalypse and Armageddon. Cap stability increase for Apoc and a powergrid tweak for the armageddon.



These are still bad, you've reduced the amarr to being garbage already, the armageddon needs to be a real ship, not this awful abomination of a baahlgorn.

You're *tweak* doesn't solve the cap issues that the amarr have unless there is also a weapon system tweak in store.