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Dev blog: Odyssey summer expansion: Starbase iterations

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DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#501 - 2013-04-09 16:44:33 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


This is a good first step. This won't affect the ability to deliver other people's finished jobs, will it?
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#502 - 2013-04-09 17:20:54 UTC
Good question. I'd imagine that delivering a finished corp job should still work for anyone with the FM role

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
#503 - 2013-04-09 17:25:53 UTC
What about a new angle for roles/permissions;

Currently everything is controlled top (corp) - down (player).
With the addition of player storage, why not introduce player controlled permissions?

I have multiple accounts/alts living in the same POS, owned by my corp. They share some ships, but mostly items (modules, loot). Currently I need my corp to give me access to a weirdly named section in a Hangar. Why not let me specify other players that can access my player storage?

Sure, that opens a huge loophole where you use a lot of alts to give you access to many times 50k storage. But perhaps you could make it so that you actually combine the storage of 'friends', but make it (exponentially) diminutively rewarding.

Roles:
There are two reasons I don't have my own POS; The cost vs. defense (which is decently guaranteed now). And the ridicule that I need permission from my corp to get one (role management) and that a 'director' can take it away if they please.
But the crappy role management system at the same time is limiting me in this POS, making me want to have my own.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#504 - 2013-04-09 18:15:33 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


Yes. Please do exactly this.

--
Stickyhand
Velators at Dawn
#505 - 2013-04-09 18:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Stickyhand
CCP Masterplan wrote:
For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


This one fix would make large industrial corps a reality. Please do this. It has been a blight on industrial corps since day one. Not to diminish the other changes being made but this one fix is vastly more important than all the other upcoming pos changes combined, as it makes a whole new path in eve a possibility.
Kennesaw Breach
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2013-04-09 18:21:26 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


I would support this.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#507 - 2013-04-09 18:36:46 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Good question. I'd imagine that delivering a finished corp job should still work for anyone with the FM role


Again would it not make sense to base it on eject access.

If you do not have access to the eject location you should not be able to..

This way you also avoid potential abuse, and the person using the facility does not need to worry about cancelling without the correct rights, since he could eject to his personal hangar.

Before the question if this could be abused, not if CEO and Execs could always access all hangars, including the personal one.

This type of thinking would aslo make it easy to let corp and alliance owned slots be more freely available without hassle over who gets what access..

In future iteration the role of managing the order of a queue would be useful, but not cancelling the job. This way prioritizing internally would be easy, but without needing lots of complicated managerial work..
Jivlain Pollard
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#508 - 2013-04-09 19:01:05 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


That would be brilliant. If you can find a way, please make it so!
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#509 - 2013-04-09 19:55:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Update on our current progress:
...
  • The CSMA anchoring change is completed and the structure has been renamed to "Extra Large Ship Maintenance Array" for clarity.
    • Shouldn't this be "X-Large Ship Maintenance Array" for parity with the existing "X-Large Ship Assembly Array"?
    Tennessee Jack
    Doomheim
    #510 - 2013-04-09 20:35:08 UTC
    Jivlain Pollard wrote:
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
    What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


    That would be brilliant. If you can find a way, please make it so!


    Oh good lord Please!
    Maude FreeLight
    The Red Circle Inc.
    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
    #511 - 2013-04-09 21:19:18 UTC
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs (and this applies to regular station jobs also) I'm going to have a look and see if there is something we can do about it. Take this with a hefty slice of Expectation Management Pie, but one simple possibility I'm thinking of is restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates.
    What do you think about this idea? Be aware this is a very specific, focused fix to an problem that has come up a few times. Please don't feature-creep on me, or there's simply no scope for it happening!


    Will this prevent someone from putting a structure offline while jobs are running?
    I'm not sure on the details but what I've been told is if a structure is offlined while jobs are running those jobs get cancelled. (Feel free to correct me if my assumption is wrong)
    Frying Doom
    #512 - 2013-04-09 22:20:53 UTC
    Two step wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Update on our current progress:

  • The Private Hangars have a usable version completed, with the key functionality working. Work is remaining on peripheral issues so the structure is not yet in a shippable state but a lot of progress has been made.
  • Taking your feedback so far into account, the Private Hangar currently has a storage size of 50,000 m3 per character, slightly larger than had been discussed before. We are interested in your opinions about that change.

  • Repackaging modules in Starbase arrays is done and shippable.

  • Accessing modules everywhere in the shield is done and working for inventory look, give and take actions.

  • The CSMA anchoring change is completed and the structure has been renamed to "Extra Large Ship Maintenance Array" for clarity.

    • As usual your feedback is welcomed.


    Thanks for the update, that all sounds great. 50K m3 per person sounds pretty reasonable to me, especially because people can either anchor another PHA or just use a CHA.

    What they have finished so far has sounded great and the fact they they are continuing to work as people give them more ideas is awesome.

    So once again thank you Two Step for making this happen and

    Thank you CCP Fozzie and the rest of the CCP staff working on this.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    RangerSmurf
    Pistols for Pandas
    #513 - 2013-04-09 23:36:32 UTC
    Can we please have some form of alliance module/item storage? Like the corp hangers that have the option to be allowed for alliance, but it does not function for them?
    Rhavas
    Noble Sentiments
    Second Empire.
    #514 - 2013-04-10 00:06:54 UTC
    While I might like a bit more space 50K is doable.

    One other thought for us wormhole dwellers. Most of us have alts, and while we don't want other people stealing our stuff we do want to be able to have our alts all pull from the same hangar (I have two characters in the hole that do PI, and they share a bin of "extra materials").

    Today with a CHA they can share easily, but everyone else has access. While the PHA addresses that risk it removes the utility for alts. Will there either be a way for CHAs to have more granular permissions or for PHA owners to enable other characters (i.e. alts) to access them by positively adding access? In essence what I'm thinking of here is the POS equivalent of a station trade or pickup contract.

    If this is too much for Odyssey I get it, but if so it'd be nice if some manner for wormhole in-POS transfer between alts existed. Thanks.

    Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
    Katsuo Nuruodo
    Suddenly Dreadnoughts
    #515 - 2013-04-10 00:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsuo Nuruodo
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Update on our current progress:

  • The Private Hangars have a usable version completed, with the key functionality working. Work is remaining on peripheral issues so the structure is not yet in a shippable state but a lot of progress has been made.
  • Taking your feedback so far into account, the Private Hangar currently has a storage size of 50,000 m3 per character, slightly larger than had been discussed before. We are interested in your opinions about that change.

  • Repackaging modules in Starbase arrays is done and shippable.

  • Accessing modules everywhere in the shield is done and working for inventory look, give and take actions.

  • The CSMA anchoring change is completed and the structure has been renamed to "Extra Large Ship Maintenance Array" for clarity.

    • As usual your feedback is welcomed.


    Sounds good to me. Thank you for working to improve POSs.

    I'm still hoping that you'll be able to add in director or CEO access to PHA's sometime this year. As other people have mentioned, being able to grant other characters access to your bay would be nice, but that would likely be a bit more complicated to implement.
    Frying Doom
    #516 - 2013-04-10 02:21:22 UTC
    RangerSmurf wrote:
    Can we please have some form of alliance module/item storage? Like the corp hangers that have the option to be allowed for alliance, but it does not function for them?

    Im not to caring about that but alliance bookmarks would be nice. I know not really a POS thing, but helpful none the less.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
    Artctura
    SUNDERING
    Goonswarm Federation
    #517 - 2013-04-10 03:00:13 UTC
    Frying Doom wrote:
    RangerSmurf wrote:
    Can we please have some form of alliance module/item storage? Like the corp hangers that have the option to be allowed for alliance, but it does not function for them?

    Im not to caring about that but alliance bookmarks would be nice. I know not really a POS thing, but helpful none the less.


    Agree, though the creation could be a bit of a pain. Generally the holding corps don't have that many people in them for obvious reasons.

    Also, increasing the limit on corp bookmarks.

    But now we're threadjacking again, and I'd think it would be better to get a response from CCP in a different thread about these issues.

    I will say though, that there does seem to be an overwhelming consensus on how broken the industrial side of POS's are and I hope that if anything does get dropped from the initial release, it isn't things that address that.

    Artctura for CSM 2013
    DoToo Foo
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #518 - 2013-04-10 03:47:47 UTC
    CCP Masterplan wrote:
    For all you players asking about the roles for cancelling jobs ... restricting the ability to cancel corp jobs to director roles only. With just the Factory-Manager role, you'd still be able to cancel your own corp jobs, but not those corp jobs belonging to your corpmates. ...


    Stabase fuel technician would be a better role for this than director. I might want to set up someone to trust with my POS, but not give them full director permissions to access everything (including other wallets).

    A Stabase fuel technician can already stop everyones job simply by making the POS offline. If I trust them with that much permission, I could also trust them to stop someone's job; but I would not need to give them permisison on everything corp related.

    http://foo-eve.blogspot.com.au/
    AspiB'elt
    Les chevaliers de l'ordre
    Goonswarm Federation
    #519 - 2013-04-10 06:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: AspiB'elt
    Hi master plan and fozzie.

    Now the production in pos is really a nightmare.

    Because you make the copy on advanced laboratory, you make the invention on the laboratory. and you build and different structure.

    My idea would be to make a need module.

    Industrial laboratory.

    What is the particularity or this module, you add inside the upgrade.

    Advanced laboratory upgrade (you add the same number of slot then now)
    Laboratory upgrade (you add the same number of slot then now)
    etc ...

    Same far all module.

    Now in you pos. You have only one structure for the prod. it's only the upgrade you put inside modify what you can make with them.

    With the same hangar in your pos you can make copy, invention, production.

    You see only one structure like station.
    Frying Doom
    #520 - 2013-04-10 06:51:38 UTC
    As you are working on POS can you change the refining arrays so they are better than NPC stations?

    A POS owner pays for his POS, an NPC station user doesn't pay for refining. In honesty I think 100% is good.

    Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!