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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2011-10-31 15:33:20 UTC
Perdition64 wrote:
hurricane vs brutix


this is a good summary of why pvp'ers generally stick with AC platforms.

- incredible falloff
- better tracking
- no cap use
- minnie ships are the fastest
- while tank remains on par with all other ships

this is overpowered. you have to give people a reason NOT TO fly an AC boat at medium/close ranges. remember, one scram and the blaster boat is dead in the water....AC boat is still doing significant damage at 25km, medium blasters dont work past 10km.
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2011-10-31 15:33:47 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Jackie Fisher wrote:
No cap usage reduction?


Actually, yes there is. I accidentally left it out of the blog. Sorry about that. It is being added to the blog right now.

Reduced Capacitor usage:
* All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use


Ok that takes care of the power hungry issue for the guns but still leaves some big issues. 

Can I be cap stable if I fit the required MWD? What about ships like the Hyperion that have and active rep bonus that cycles them faster, sucks more power. 

What about how armor tanking makes you slow?

What about kitting gallente ships with scram making it so they can't get in range to do their theoretical damage. 
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#103 - 2011-10-31 15:33:57 UTC
I pulled up EFT. First ship I looked at was the much maligned DieMost

It will still be DieMost with these stats.

For the first fit I threw together, with perfect fitting skills, this boat does an insane amount of DPS close in....715 pre-heat, which is great, but still has issues.

Incorporating the changes to blasters to the fit below:
1. Power grid changes free up approx 114 grid, which is great and now allows the ability to fit the whole rack of neutron blasters plus an 800 mm plate, barely (boat below uses 1197 of 1237.5 grid)
2. CPU changes free up 10 CPU, which now also allow the ability to fit T2 tackle mods, instead of meta 4/faction. Boat below uses 430.25 of 437.5 CPU
3. However, these are based on leaving the 6th high slot empty. There is not enough CPU or grid for anything useful in there.
4. Top speed of boat with MwD on, no overheat, has gone from 1407 to 1469 m/s. That is clearly not enough to make a difference.
5. Total EHP with T1 Trimarks on fit below comes in at 41,595. Might be a tad light when compared to other slow HAC's, but something that can be lived with, IF it was slightly faster.

[[Deimos, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
[empty high slot]

Hammerhead II x5
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#104 - 2011-10-31 15:33:59 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:
Jackie Fisher wrote:
No cap usage reduction?


Actually, yes there is. I accidentally left it out of the blog. Sorry about that. It is being added to the blog right now.

Reduced Capacitor usage:
* All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use


Now, on to that issue of rails having way too much wasted range.



Yeah like remove the optimal range bonus and replace with a rate of fire bonus


Allow a choice between RoF and Alpha based on ammunition, imo.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#105 - 2011-10-31 15:34:10 UTC
Excellent!
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2011-10-31 15:40:02 UTC
by the way Tallest, when it comes to cruiser-sized ships, gallente pilots have nothing to snipe with. the Ishtar is merely situational because sentries cant move with the ship.

similarly to brutix vs. hurricane discussion, you gotta think about deimos vs. beam zealot. make the deimos a VIABLE ship. also think: brutix has more EHP and dps....why fly a HAC blaster boat?

take each gallente ship and ask yourself - why would anyone fly this over something else? if you cant find an answer, then that ship needs to be brought up to par.
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#107 - 2011-10-31 15:42:31 UTC
These are all very decent changes! I congratulate CCP for taking some good first steps in the direction of rebalancing hybrids, and hope that their efforts continue into the new year.

Still, there's one other change that should be strongly contemplated for this iteration: please increase medium rail damage more than 10%.

While small and large rail damage will benefit from the proposed change, +10% damage is still not going to be enough for the medium rails, which are still going to be rather ridiculously sub-par even after this buff. Comparing (for instance) the DPS output of a Muninn versus an Eagle will show that even with a 10% increase, the Eagle finds itself laughably disadvantaged in every respect. And the less said about trying to compare a rail Ferox versus an arty Cane, the better.

CCP, please increase medium rail damage by 20%, not 10%. Thank you!

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Tore Vest
#108 - 2011-10-31 15:45:14 UTC
Rails need 20% more dmg .....
Blasters ... good with 20% more tracking..... but need maby at least 5km longer optimal range ?

And realy ? xl blasters and rails are good enough ? What?

No troll.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#109 - 2011-10-31 15:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
FYI, Deimos is/will be viable as a sniper (in terms of raw dps +emergency drones) however the Eagle/Moa/Ferox/Vulture/Rokh situation is painful.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite.
#110 - 2011-10-31 15:46:07 UTC
Quote:
Max Velocity +10 on the following ships:

Arazu, Astarte, Brutix, Catalyst, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Enyo, Eos, Falcon, Guardian-Vexor, Helios, Incursus, Ishtar, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant


Quote:
Inertia Modifier -5% on the following ships:

Adrestia, Arazu, Ares, Astarte, Atron, Brutix, Catalyst, Celestis, Cormorant, Daredevil, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Eagle, Enyo, Eos, Eris, Exequror Navy Issue, Falcon, Federation Navy Comet, Ferox, Guardian-Vexor, Harpy, Helios, Hyperion, Incursus, Ishkur, Ishtar, Kronos, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Merlin, Moa, Phobos, Raptor, Rokh, Sin, Taranis, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vulture


The Falcon is a hybrid ship? O Rly? I don't think I've ever seen one fitted with rails, they always have missile launchers for killmailwhoring. A really good Falcon pilot doesn't even put anything because that's not the job of a Falcon. Let's be serious about this. Do we want Falcons even more maneuverable, so they can escape more easily the just retribution of those they've jammed? I don't think so...

With regards to the Rokh, I'm unsure, since it's a shield ship so already relatively maneuverable. But as already mentioned, I don't see this becoming the are of the Rokh. But is to be kept on eye.

And last but not least the Myrmidon, I haven't seen it on the list. An explanation for that?
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#111 - 2011-10-31 15:47:22 UTC
Can we get Sisi updated to all skills at 5? Same for supercap changes. We had that two years ago with DD and supercarrier introduction - please help us helping you testing!

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#112 - 2011-10-31 15:48:55 UTC
Langbaobao wrote:

The Falcon is a hybrid ship? O Rly? I don't think I've ever seen one fitted with rails, they always have missile launchers for killmailwhoring. A really good Falcon pilot doesn't even put anything because that's not the job of a Falcon. Let's be serious about this. Do we want Falcons even more maneuverable, so they can escape more easily the just retribution of those they've jammed? I don't think so...


Valid.

Langbaobao wrote:

With regards to the Rokh, I'm unsure, since it's a shield ship so already relatively maneuverable. But as already mentioned, I don't see this becoming the are of the Rokh. But is to be kept on eye.


ROFL, I hope you're joking.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#113 - 2011-10-31 15:48:59 UTC
On grid scanning nerf would definitely make rails (and sniping) more viable again, but it wouldn't really take that long to fleets have cov ops hovering at the edge of a grid for some quick scanning to get a warp in which would take us right back to start.

However if information warfare links would proportionally decrease your signature instead of targeting range (so that you would be extremely difficult to scan down from a grid) sniping might see return with rails.
Though that change would likely lead to another sort of meta gaming with AFK alts and T3's in WH's and we'd be back to square one.
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
#114 - 2011-10-31 15:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Zelda Wei
If price is considered a broad indication of utility and attractiveness to players, then the clear omission is spike the cheapest T2 hybrid ammo and even border line unprofitable to make from a BPO.
Garbad theWeak
#115 - 2011-10-31 15:52:15 UTC
This is an excellent start, but there are still a few issues. I've plugged all this into the test version of pyfa and fooled around a bit with fits. As I see it:

- hybrid snipers are once again top in the game. At 200k, they outperform even lasers, and shockingly, caldari are the best. I think hybrids are officially fixed. You can debate if armor snipers are still better, but its competitive, especially the naga. They also should easily outrange pulses now.

- blasters are still inferior. They get a slight increase in damage at the cost of inferior range/speed. Blasters are still all but useless outside of a very small gang situation.

- inability to switch damage types hurts. The proposed swaps between kin/them and therm/kin would REALLY help.

I think the next step for blasterboats is to buff those ships individually.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#116 - 2011-10-31 15:54:18 UTC
Langbaobao wrote:
With regards to the Rokh, I'm unsure, since it's a shield ship so already relatively maneuverable.
Rokhs. Maneuvrable.

Sir, you never fly one of these.

Also, picture of the day :

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/856/sharkrokh.png

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Sannikoff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2011-10-31 15:54:39 UTC
politically correct.
we bust hybrid weapons after bust minmatars weapons.
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2011-10-31 15:54:49 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
Rails need 20% more dmg ..... 
Blasters ... good with 20% more tracking..... but need  maby at least 5km longer optimal range ?

And realy ?  xl blasters and rails are good enough ?  What?


XL Blasters tracking is a actually too good as blaster Titans **** sub caps. If they nerf them though they won't hit their attended target. XL guns probably need a code change to prevent sub cap **** like they did with fighter bombers. 
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#119 - 2011-10-31 15:55:45 UTC
Umm you do know that shootings over 150km is useless

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Bilaz
Duck and Finch
#120 - 2011-10-31 15:56:37 UTC
ok, so you tweaked hybrid guns a bit. now where is the boost we have been waiting for ages? Ugh

Everything is horribly wrong with hybrids now - they are useless and worthless - and they would still be worthless and useless after these changes, maybe not so horribly but still. (small and xl are fine btw) You may look back how incredibly projectiles were boosted and they were twice as good as hybrids now to begin with. get us something of that calibre and magnitude please.