Player Features and Ideas Discussion

maybe my look at things is too simply as i only know TEs in their current form, but i always thought the biggest issue with autocannons was the non-influence of the high dmg projectile ammo on their range.

high dmg crystals and hybrid charges cut the weapon range roughly in half. Fusion, EMP and Phased Plasma do this only when used with artillery. They only modify the optimal range which is non-existent for autocannons. When a malus on falloff would be introduced, kiting ships with autoannons would be either forced to come closer or rely on the ammo with no such malus. barrage is locked into explo/kin dmg and the dmg selection is reduced further, dealing with yet another thing everybody and his dog complains about.
of course introducing both ammo changes and the TE nerf would be brutal. so choose between an across the board nerfling or the autocannon specific tweak.

For god's sake stop with this childish whining!


Several years ago NO ONE used tracking enhancers. All range ships used mostly Tracking computers and that was on the age were REAL range was necessary and you were useless if you could not reach 150 km.

So stop with this doomsday talk! NO. Weapons are not #!#!@#1, no they did NOT hit massively any reasonable setup. No they did not made kiting impossible.

ANYONE that really believe that this changes are OMG SO DEVASTATIGN is simply DUMB, or is trolling! They affect ALL ships almost since almost all ships used those modules! The balance has not been massively shaked, just slightly adjusted.

I don't mind faloff bonus for TE's being reduced slightly (and 20% instead of 30% isn't such a big difference). The rest of changes I don't like - 15% increase in optimal range wasn't that great to begin with, and people should be encouraged to use remote sebos instead of local ones.

That was intentionally made that way so that minamtar woudl have the so called damage selection.

The real price is in tracking. The trackign of AC was reduced back then and the mid range ammo got a tracking bonus. They simply made the things DIFFERENT. and that is intentional. IT would be stupid for all races be the same, but in different colors.


Also peopel are really failing hard at this thread on not understandign how falloff is nto nearly same as range.

At range+ faloff you are doing LESS than 50% of your damage. Effectively ANYTHING beyond range + HALF falloff is outside effective range! Unless you are fighting something completely paper made.

When Tracking Enhancers were originally created there was some though put into overall module balance. As a result, if you are going to reduce range then there should be some change in another area to keep the module in balance. Some options I can think of are increasing tracking bonus or reducing CPU requirements...

Seems only fair...

well then the projectile ammo experiment failed imho. there are few situations where you actually have to use the "midrange" or even "longrange" ammo. in a lot of cases this situations can be handled with T2 ammo. so fusion, emp and phased are the ones mostly used with depleted uranium on some occasions. would it not be more sensible to use falloff too for tuning the projectile range?

the extensive use of high dmg ammos might be a product of TEs giving so much range which would be somewhat adjusted with the proposed changes. but still, i have the feeling autocannons aren't that strong in midrange combat because of TEs. alot of people have pointed out and done the math that the proposed changes will not alter the dmg projection of autocannons in a tremendous fashion.

Will not change much. But that is the beauty.. the most impact will coem trough psicological effect. People Stop flying ships that are MIDLY nerfed just because for most, overreaction is the way to go. I know a LOT of people that are statign they will have no use for talos anymore? its mathematically reasonable? NO. but will have a large psicological effect and the ammount of talos , tornados and etc will diminish a bit.


If you look at numbers only, amarr laser boats never stoped being good when minmatar got boosted. But people overreact by all jumping into minmatar ships and forgetting minmatar ones. An Apoc with megaPulse are still monstruously powerful against battlecruiser/cruiser trying to kite!!! But from day to night people forgot about them! The before called overpowered race was jsut forgotte.,.. a pure psycological effect.

Other day I saw 2 Taloses and an oracle at a gate get murdered into tiny pieces by 1 angry armageddon and 1 tackling interceptor.... People just like to forget that there are options and ccp needs to gently remind them

hey hey.. I did that with my apoc just to be able to make the Rainbow attack with all colors at same time!

but seriously, that is right. AC are overrrated. People are just plain ignorant or overreactive on how effective a system is. They tend to look only the advantages and ignore the rest.

Check how amazingly HUGE your damage projection is with EMP when you are not using TE (tat are being nerfed ). Only the bonused ships have some sort of noticeable projection, and even those are not incredble. A stabber with EMP and no TE has pitiful damage projection and can barely hurt a drunken butterfly outside web range.

It depend on the fit, but with LR weapons, they are somewhat useful, giving you a good scale of range, but the longest range ammo are indeed useless compared to T2 LR ammo.

I'm fine with the idea of weapon system specific "TEs".

So a Minmatar TE would be something like, (spitballing numbers here): 0% optimal, 45% falloff bonus
Gallente/Caldari TE: 15% optimal, 20% falloff
Amarr TE: 30% optimal, 0% falloff

Obviously could use number tweaking between optimal and falloff balance (depends on its value to the weapon system as seen above), but you get the idea.