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What turret type for missioning?

Author
Wendy Testeberger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-04-02 14:08:59 UTC
So I decided to make an alt to run missions with my main which is Caldari and missile trained. I want to try something different and go with turrets this time around. Problem is, I can't decide which turret type to go with.

Right now I am missioning in Amarr space but a few months ago I was in Caldari space and in 6 months I might be in Minmatar space, so I don't want that to be a major factor. Would also like to possibly take this alt into incursions later down the road.

I will also be training drones up as well.

What I know so far...

Lasers: Don't have to carry around a lot of ammo, quick reload, cap hungry Amarr BS are ugly as sin imo

Projectile: Don't require cap, longest reload time

Hybrid: shorter reload time. read on forums that they suck. Don't know if this is true or not. One thing going for hybrids is Megathron hull (Vindi) is best looking BS hull in game imo. Not a deal breaker if I don't get to fly one but it would be nice.

What it all boils down to is DPS across all ranges in a BS class hull. I am currently just working on fitting skills and drones while I decide.


TLDR: What turret type do you recommend for missioning other than missiles?
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#2 - 2013-04-02 14:14:11 UTC
Projectiles, then run circles around cruisers in a mach

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-04-02 14:24:52 UTC
vindicator, machariel and nightmare are all three excellent mission runners. the machariel is arguably the best; it can select damage types, has little to no capacitor trouble and is faster and more agile than the other two. that said, the vindi and nightmare beat the mach in damage projection and are not far behind in general.

TL;DR: pick a ship, not a turret type.

I should buy an Ishtar.

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#4 - 2013-04-02 14:42:35 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
vindicator, machariel and nightmare are all three excellent mission runners. the machariel is arguably the best; it can select damage types, has little to no capacitor trouble and is faster and more agile than the other two. that said, the vindi and nightmare beat the mach in damage projection and are not far behind in general.

TL;DR: pick a ship, not a turret type.


You don't rate the Vargur?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-04-02 15:24:03 UTC
I agree with picking the ship and not the gun, but if you're going to jump to multiple empires, then I recommend projectiles for the dmg selection. Minmatar ships are great for PVE when flown right.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-04-02 15:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
vindicator, machariel and nightmare are all three excellent mission runners. the machariel is arguably the best; it can select damage types, has little to no capacitor trouble and is faster and more agile than the other two. that said, the vindi and nightmare beat the mach in damage projection and are not far behind in general.

TL;DR: pick a ship, not a turret type.


You don't rate the Vargur?

after all is said and done, the vargur is just a budget machariel. less range, less speed, less damage etc.

edit: i just noticed, after the TE nerf the vargur with two scripted TCs wil actually outrange a shield mach (lol).

I should buy an Ishtar.

Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#7 - 2013-04-02 16:11:39 UTC
i suggest you pick something that won't be too complicated to dual box. Picking two ships with completely different styles can be a headache. You may get the benefit of having ships that cover each other's weaknesses, but generally two of the same ship better allows you to take advantage of the strengths and with two the weaknesses become less noticeable. Two ships does open up a lot of options and allows you to be rather creative in how you fit/fly.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-04-02 16:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
AC. Dmg selection, tracking, projection. Things like reload time is a nonfactor.
Ginger Barbarella
#9 - 2013-04-02 16:40:11 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Projectiles, then run circles around cruisers in a mach


Battleship vs cruiser? That's kinda sad, isn't it?

To the OP: I'd definately go Projectile (preferably Arty) and Minnie hulls. Good fun.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2013-04-02 16:51:16 UTC
best bet for an alt to help you run missions is get them into a BC not a BS. When in mission they can orbit your main, smaller weapon systems can hit smaller targets easier, and depending on the ship you fly you can fit RR on the BC to assit your BS tank allowing it to be fit fro more DPS.

For example I ussed to run level 4 missions with a Raven and an alt in a drake. the drake would take out the smaller ships starting at frigates and work its way up, while the Raven would start at battleships and work its way down. I would also fit a shield or energy transfer array in the utility slot on the drake to top up the ravens tank between rooms.

Another advantage of the Drake is its crazy passive tank. If fit right you can warp it in first to soak up initial agro and then warp in the Raven. By the time the Raven pulls agro half the room is dead. makes things much faster as you can fit more gank then tank and still stay safe.

Another option is a drone boat either cruiser or BC. You release drones and set them to assist the battleship. they will add DPS without having to alt-tab back and fourth between screens.

Two battleships can be hard to manage unless you have two monitors, Rats will continuously switch agro, and even then, it is the smaller ships that cause problems for battleships in missions. If you are going to dual box you will have faster completion times having the alt in a ship that can easily take out those little buggers.

I have done this a lot and always do better with a BS, BC combo then two BS's.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-04-02 17:08:14 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Projectiles, then run circles around cruisers in a mach


Battleship vs cruiser? That's kinda sad, isn't it?

To the OP: I'd definately go Projectile (preferably Arty) and Minnie hulls. Good fun.


Sounded like a good joke at first glance, then you mentioned Arty, turns out you're just clueless, about various things. Still funny though, on both counts.Smile
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#12 - 2013-04-02 17:23:22 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Projectiles, then run circles around cruisers in a mach


Battleship vs cruiser? That's kinda sad, isn't it?

To the OP: I'd definately go Projectile (preferably Arty) and Minnie hulls. Good fun.

Meh not really, some fat people are fast

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#13 - 2013-04-02 18:28:10 UTC
Go projectiles, head for a maelstrom and then get a mac.. even with T1 guns is really good and as you will be moving around it will allow you to select damage type. It is what I do so it has to be the right way ... Twisted
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-04-02 19:28:42 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
vindicator, machariel and nightmare are all three excellent mission runners. the machariel is arguably the best; it can select damage types, has little to no capacitor trouble and is faster and more agile than the other two. that said, the vindi and nightmare beat the mach in damage projection and are not far behind in general.

TL;DR: pick a ship, not a turret type.


You don't rate the Vargur?

after all is said and done, the vargur is just a budget machariel. less range, less speed, less damage etc.

edit: i just noticed, after the TE nerf the vargur with two scripted TCs wil actually outrange a shield mach (lol).

Is this based on the assumption people train Gallente BS to five? I recall having some pretty sweet range with the Vargur, also shooting Barrage is more cost effective with four turrets.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#15 - 2013-04-02 20:38:33 UTC
Fair warning, most of the Machariel's reputation is based on EFT warriors. If only they knew about falloff. If you're in Amarr space, the Nightmare has it beat. If you're in Caldari/Gallente space, the Kronos and Vindication have it beat.

Everyone raves about "damage selectability!!1!" but what they don't tell you is that there is no short-range ammo that does kinetic damage for projectiles. If you want Kinetic damage, you're using medium range ammo which comes with a large loss of DPS. All of the projectile ammo is split damage as well. There is no pure damage.

And also remember, at optimal+falloff range you do about 38% of your paper damage. So while EFT tells you you should be doing about 1100 DPS with 4.2+75km range and RF PP and all Vs, you'll actually only be doing about 400-450 at that range. Also remember that you wont have all Vs, and projectiles are heavily reliant on ship bonuses and having good falloff skills. The turrets themselves are pretty rubbish.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#16 - 2013-04-02 21:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodama Ikari
Hakaimono wrote:

Is this based on the assumption people train Gallente BS to five?


Only a scrub would leave it at 4 and be content. Level 5 is critical for the Rattler and the Domis, which are popular ships. Its also is a significant boost to the mach and vindi. Oh yeah, and there are also these things called capital ships. The gallente ones have been popular forever. Guess which skill you need to fly those? EDIT: I may have misinterpreted your post, I thought were you were implying that Gal BS 5 was not worth it or otherwise not particularly useful.

Paikis wrote:
Fair warning, most of the Machariel's reputation is based on EFT warriors. If only they knew about falloff. If you're in Amarr space, the Nightmare has it beat. If you're in Caldari/Gallente space, the Kronos and Vindication have it beat.

Everyone raves about "damage selectability!!1!" but what they don't tell you is that there is no short-range ammo that does kinetic damage for projectiles. If you want Kinetic damage, you're using medium range ammo which comes with a large loss of DPS. All of the projectile ammo is split damage as well. There is no pure damage.

And also remember, at optimal+falloff range you do about 38% of your paper damage. So while EFT tells you you should be doing about 1100 DPS with 4.2+75km range and RF PP and all Vs, you'll actually only be doing about 400-450 at that range. Also remember that you wont have all Vs, and projectiles are heavily reliant on ship bonuses and having good falloff skills. The turrets themselves are pretty rubbish.


without a doubt the dumbest post I have read today.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-04-02 21:48:33 UTC
Yeah I wasn't saying its pointless to take Gal bs to five. Far from it actually because it improves already spectacular ships and yes, gains access to some of the best capital ships in game. Just might do that very thing once I'm done training Amarr.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-04-02 22:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Just a little FYI, don't take people saying that something is really bad seriously on these forums. For the most part, every module and every ship is good for a certain use.

Blasters aren't all that great for missions but if you know what you are doing you can melt through them really quickly. Rails on the otherhand are excellent for missions, especially the Large ones. You can hit targets pretty well with them from 100+ km which makes tanking less of an issue as you will be generally out of their range. As a result, you can focus on applying heavy damage to your targets. With the Megathron, you can carry plenty of drones to take out smaller ships that get too close.

Personally here is what you should look for...

1. Personal preference, train all of them to the bare minimum level of use and see which ones you like the best.

2. Streamlined training. Try training something for missioning that you can also use for other activities. For example, if your corp likes to use Tech 2 Lasers then train lasers (only if you like them of course) so this way you will kill two birds in one stone.

3. Ships. Your weapon of choice won't be so effective on ships that just don't work well with them. Be sure to be appropriately trained for ships that make great use of your favored weapon system.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#19 - 2013-04-02 23:06:32 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Fair warning, most of the Machariel's reputation is based on EFT warriors. If only they knew about falloff. If you're in Amarr space, the Nightmare has it beat. If you're in Caldari/Gallente space, the Kronos and Vindication have it beat.

Everyone raves about "damage selectability!!1!" but what they don't tell you is that there is no short-range ammo that does kinetic damage for projectiles. If you want Kinetic damage, you're using medium range ammo which comes with a large loss of DPS. All of the projectile ammo is split damage as well. There is no pure damage.

And also remember, at optimal+falloff range you do about 38% of your paper damage. So while EFT tells you you should be doing about 1100 DPS with 4.2+75km range and RF PP and all Vs, you'll actually only be doing about 400-450 at that range. Also remember that you wont have all Vs, and projectiles are heavily reliant on ship bonuses and having good falloff skills. The turrets themselves are pretty rubbish.



Not an eft warrior, all practical experience. I use my NM in Amarr and the mach everywhere else. While its true that sabot sucks.. thermal does a decent job on guristas and othe kinetic weak rats as thermal is secondary wekness. I find missile boats to slow in killing the small stuff so have moved away from tengu's, CNR and Golems. I have never tried the kronos or vindi, but the mach works better than a navy mega so don't feel the need to try them.

So if you only going to get one ship for moving around, the mach is the best choice. If you going to get a ship for each race area.. there will be better choices for some.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#20 - 2013-04-03 08:05:33 UTC
Kodama Ikari wrote:
without a doubt the dumbest post I have written today.


I agree. Reasons or GTFO.
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