These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Module Rebalancing Part One: RSBs and TEs

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#721 - 2013-03-28 16:24:28 UTC
Octoven wrote:


I agree, but recently changes to the game have pointed to the aspect of getting players up close to each other to fight. HML were nerfed by 20 km, and now they want to nerf TEs? It isn't because they are OP its because CCP is killing the sniper role as we know it and replacing combat with nothing but blaster, pulse, AC, HAMs up close and personal. To be honest, I am disappointed in the way the devs are handling this game.

STOP making changes you want CCP and start listening to the players who pay your salaries. Before that whole load of devs quit a few years back the game was awesome; however, despite some good things that have come out in recent expansions, its been mostly trash and nerfs.


TE's make long range weapons unnecessary because it makes it so you can kite using blasters, pulses, and autocannons.
Sorry your railguns can't reach past hard coded lock range anymore.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Lina Halid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#722 - 2013-03-28 17:07:46 UTC
Alsyth wrote:
amurder Hakomairos wrote:

Its not even OP on the Mach. When a ship's hull costs 6-12x the cost of a normal battleship you should be getting a significant increase in performance.


-overpowered speed/agility mix (better than any BC/CS and most cruisers)
-overpowered damage projection
-top-class dps
-tank is not bad compared to other non-specialized shield BSs

Get rid of the damage projection and I'm fine with the Machariel as a powerful tool for rich guys, but as it is, it's too much. Or drop a lowslot.

I can't think of any (subcapital) ship making as effective use of TEs as Machariels, and the point CCP PL raised is that TEs give too much of an advantage to kiting minmatar ships: the Machariel is the absolute best example for that, and in my opinion the only one that needs a nerf.


So Machariel is killing EVE pvp? Alright.
Lina Halid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#723 - 2013-03-28 17:11:16 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:


TE's make long range weapons unnecessary because it makes it so you can kite using blasters, pulses, and autocannons.
Sorry your railguns can't reach past hard coded lock range anymore.


Hm, care to support these your words by any examples? As far as I understand the main problem of railguns isn't reach, but tracking. Which said TE nerf won't help to.
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#724 - 2013-03-28 17:26:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Small addition -

Obviously many of you seem frustrated that X Y or Z ship that used shields and TEs is getting nerfed, how many ships that don't use TEs are picking up that slack to punish you for this change? HAM caracals maybe? Not drakes right because they just got a big change as well...

I'm genuinely asking because the only space I see being created is for armor based ships that already needed the lows for their tanks - and I don't see those ships becoming stronger than skirmishers based on this change. Am I wrong?



People will -always- criticise changes that nerf their playstyle. Many less sophisticated players think -all- nerfs are wrong.

See: every change ever. The nano nerfs, the dual prop nerf, the original missile nerf, the ASB nerf etc etc etc
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#725 - 2013-03-28 17:32:31 UTC
amurder Hakomairos wrote:
Alsyth wrote:
amurder Hakomairos wrote:

Its not even OP on the Mach. When a ship's hull costs 6-12x the cost of a normal battleship you should be getting a significant increase in performance.


-overpowered speed/agility mix (better than any BC/CS and most cruisers)
-overpowered damage projection
-top-class dps
-tank is not bad compared to other non-specialized shield BSs

Get rid of the damage projection and I'm fine with the Machariel as a powerful tool for rich guys, but as it is, it's too much. Or drop a lowslot.

I can't think of any (subcapital) ship making as effective use of TEs as Machariels, and the point CCP PL raised is that TEs give too much of an advantage to kiting minmatar ships: the Machariel is the absolute best example for that, and in my opinion the only one that needs a nerf.



And this is a problem because people are fielding huge Mach PvP fleets and owning everything right? Nerfing TEs because of the Mach or the Mach itself is a nerf to PvE only and nothing should be nerfed to make PvE a longer and more boring grind than it already is.



If it is any consolation (unlikely), there were several collateral casualties of the HM nerf over and above the drake/tengu. The suggestions to address the hulls directly were rebuffed.

They're taking a mod first/hull second approach in the main from what I can tell.
Boris Amarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#726 - 2013-03-28 18:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Boris Amarr
Nerf TE is a terrible idea! It is mean nerf ALL amarr ships. Amarr ships doesn't have med slots for tracking computers, because they need MVD, point (scramble or tracking disruptor) and cap booster. Also Amarr ships has huge capacitor usage, only EM and thermic damage, terrible bonus to capacitor use on 50% ships, terrible armor tank. And now you wand kill Amarr's optimal (that is not good). May be TE has overstate bonus to falloff but why are you going to kill optimal???
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#727 - 2013-03-28 19:33:11 UTC
Boris Amarr wrote:
Nerf TE is a terrible idea! It is mean nerf ALL amarr ships. Amarr ships doesn't have med slots for tracking computers, because they need MVD, point (scramble or tracking disruptor) and cap booster. Also Amarr ships has huge capacitor usage, only EM and thermic damage, terrible bonus to capacitor use on 50% ships, terrible armor tank. And now you wand kill Amarr's optimal (that is not good). May be TE has overstate bonus to falloff but why are you going to kill optimal???



LOl Funny as ammar say they are the most nerfed, then minmatar say they are the most nerfed.. then come the gallente and say that blasters will be ruined.


Can you see people? That means its BALANCED!!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#728 - 2013-03-28 19:59:22 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Boris Amarr wrote:
Nerf TE is a terrible idea! It is mean nerf ALL amarr ships. Amarr ships doesn't have med slots for tracking computers, because they need MVD, point (scramble or tracking disruptor) and cap booster. Also Amarr ships has huge capacitor usage, only EM and thermic damage, terrible bonus to capacitor use on 50% ships, terrible armor tank. And now you wand kill Amarr's optimal (that is not good). May be TE has overstate bonus to falloff but why are you going to kill optimal???



LOl Funny as ammar say they are the most nerfed, then minmatar say they are the most nerfed.. then come the gallente and say that blasters will be ruined.


Can you see people? That means its BALANCED!!!!!


It might affect all races equally (it doesn't) but it does not affect all ships equally. There's more to balance than that.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#729 - 2013-03-28 20:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarak1 Kenpach1
minmatar actually will get a huge buff out of this because their upper echelon options like vagas, lokis, and sleipnirs all have a racial falloff bonus' on their ships. so, things that dont have it will suck but most folks who fly minmatar cruisers will probably wind up in those three minmatar ships at some point anyways and now they most definatly will if these changes go through

tldr minmatar are hit least by nerfing te's in this fashion.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#730 - 2013-03-28 20:24:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


LOl Funny as ammar say they are the most nerfed, then minmatar say they are the most nerfed.. then come the gallente and say that blasters will be ruined.


Can you see people? That means its BALANCED!!!!!


I think the problem is specific ship fits/doctrines from each are affected in different degrees rather than it necessarily badly effecting one race as a whole. This is why I'm not a fan of the change now after having been these stats for so long as it is very varied in its impact infact I'm very dubious of a change that reduces a T2 module back to the stats of the origial meta0 version unless its in response to a major game breaking problem.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#731 - 2013-03-28 20:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Major Killz wrote:

Adapt or die. Simple.


- killz



This forum desperately needs a feature where every time some highsec publord posts the words "adapt or die" they get struck by lightning IRL.

Nice post-signing, bro.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#732 - 2013-03-28 20:41:29 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Major Killz wrote:

Adapt or die. Simple.


- killz



This forum desperately needs a feature where every time some highsec publord posts the words "adapt or die" they get struck by lightning IRL.

Nice post-signing, bro.



Good sir. What does pub lord mean? I hope you do not use me as an example. I fear I may be sad if so Roll

Also, I have existed in this game with the aforementioned as a principle. Predators often try to differentiate from thier prey.


Hmm. I've been told it's the same for child molesters. Honestly, though. I often hear that term thrown around by terribubbles on a consistent basis. Guess I'm not young anymore v0v

- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#733 - 2013-03-28 20:53:30 UTC
Major Killz wrote:

- killz


ZAP!
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#734 - 2013-03-28 21:01:32 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Major Killz wrote:

- killz


ZAP!



Brannigan ?
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#735 - 2013-03-28 21:14:47 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

ship fully aligned that refuse to warp (a 20+ fleet of nano vaga aligned , wing warped, half of them needed 5 extra second to initiate warp!)

This glitch I've personally experienced twice while in a legion in epic arc missions, the first time the GMs admitted there was an issue and reimbursed me, the second time they refused to admit any such thing. Nice to see public response that this glitch does exist!
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#736 - 2013-03-28 21:29:24 UTC
Since we are on the nerf train to cater to the large fleets why don’t we just nerf damage projection as a whole and force fleets to all fight at 0 because no one enjoys fighting against the odds and we all know nano pvp is completely useless. Eve doesn’t need tactics. Let’s make it 10km easier for massive blobs to hit F1 and call it skill.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#737 - 2013-03-28 21:31:01 UTC
Oh my God, the tears! Rejoice my Amarrian brothers, our time is almost at hand Twisted

Oderint Dum Metuant
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#738 - 2013-03-28 21:40:18 UTC
Aralieus wrote:
Oh my God, the tears! Rejoice my Amarrian brothers, our time is almost at hand Twisted



well 90% of the game likes the nerf because they are crying that the other 10% can kite and kill a fleet twice their numbers. I mean this ability to win with skill over brawn is bad we should nerf all dps to 1 and tanks up to 100k so we have to deploy Test Alliance tactics... look a drake cyno look inta time dilation!
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#739 - 2013-03-28 21:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Sorana Bonzari wrote:
Aralieus wrote:
Oh my God, the tears! Rejoice my Amarrian brothers, our time is almost at hand Twisted



well 90% of the game likes the nerf because they are crying that the other 10% can kite and kill a fleet twice their numbers. I mean this ability to win with skill over brawn is bad we should nerf all dps to 1 and tanks up to 100k so we have to deploy Test Alliance tactics... look a drake cyno look inta time dilation!



SKILL? I'm not to sure about that. I've been able to teach a new character the basics of kiting and be able to use said tactic in fleets.

Solo I'm able to handle 3 - 7 targets at once, at ranges between 14 - 20,000m and move in, threw and around them fairly well. Most ingame are not capable of that. Even those I know to be really good. In fact. I know of only one other pilot in the Genos who has shown the ability to do that, but he's not playing at the moment.

Most who employ the general skirmishing tactic take advantage of the fact that 98% of the pilots ingame are just terribubble. In fact the contrast is VAST. Still. I've seen large fleets in TEST kite fairly well.

The tactic is now ubiquitous. Those who master it are few though, but it DOESNT MATTER.

So, this "skill" is easly learned and employed in a fleet of atleast 2 and it becomes easier the larger the fleet scales. Like most things that tend to reach da level of BLOB.

In the past the difference between BLOBS were HUGE. Now everyone has come up. Everyone is employing L33T tactics at varying degrees of success. Most of them cant use said tactics solo very well, but properly lead by a compotent fleet commander. NUbs can fight outnumbered like pros in those fleets.


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Elara Longbottom
bjAgcjFzayBuMCBmVW4hCg
#740 - 2013-03-28 22:00:33 UTC
Lelob wrote:
rsb nerf is nice

nerfing te's though is not a good change. This will make almost any gang shield ship severely nerfed, given that almost all of them rely on te's to have any hope to work properly. This is not a change that I would look forward to or would offer a particularly good fix to anything really. The reason that it has always traditionally been acceptale that shield ships have greater range via te's is because they have less tank and less ewar. This just makes it so that when you role in armor you will not be out-kited by faster, less tankier ships and those ships will have to come and fight within your optimals. It just does not make sense why anyone would willingly want to fly shield ships after the heavy bonuses/nerfs that they have been getting.

They recently got t2 plates
Then armour honeycombing made them far less slow
Now they will be able to operate in the same general range as shield ships, but with the bonus of having more tank, stronger force multipliers, (loki/proteus vs huggin/lachesis), and more midslots potentially for ewar such as td's and damps

This will also be a pretty siable buff for td's given the greatly shortened range this will give shield ships.

This really is a bad, bad idea.


thats what keep ppl paying subscribers... every once in a while there are incoming failbalance tries pushing pilots to train other hulls, guns, upgrades, tanks, ...

thats the sole reason. TEs is the basic element of shield nano gangs. the kind of gamestyle that makes fighting outnumbered possible. without those, or with these incoming nerfes as well, ccp prevents ppl from being able to fight outnumbered wihtout an extreme added risk of losing everything while trying to fight the blob.

its like it is. if u lack range and speed, u have to go close, if u go close u will get webbed (out to 30-40k in fleets) and then u will just die to the blob.

so, fozzie, is this what u want? force ppl to form blobs and the bigger blob always wins?

god, get into the game and get a clue about whats up out there.