Player Features and Ideas Discussion

check the last few updates, they have done 2 things:

nerf the drake a bit, nerf all the matar ships, introduce bazillions of bugs.

to ccp: stop nerfing, focus on fixing what is really broken, and actually, there are many things in both pvp and pve mechanic that are broken.

5 sec delay to lock upon landing (5 sec from the moment your ship stop displaying "warping" and you can initiate lock, logis love this so much!)
point sometimes being not applied (pointed pod which warp out, point doesn't start, pointed cruiser warp out while being pointed by hictor)
ship fully aligned that refuse to warp (a 20+ fleet of nano vaga aligned , wing warped, half of them needed 5 extra second to initiate warp!)
ewar to powerfull on some mission

all this started since last summer patch, gettin worse every patch, especially since dust bunnies joined us.

all those have been reported / bug tracked for long time to no solution, enought is enought, fix your game, hen we will talk about resuming balancing!

I am a slicer pilot, and I'm telling you that 2km doesn't really matter because its generally out of point range since most slicers are forced to fit a faint warp disruptor and fight right around 18km, give or take.

The 2km difference means nothing.

This is fckin stupid, stop taking away from the game. How about you add to it instead.

Except that the threshold will ALWAYS favor the kiting setup, simply becuase you can actually escape when you are in a kiting setup, as opposed to a brawl setup where if you can't kill your target, you are going to die.

The key difference is the lack of mobility within scram range outside of edge-case scenarios like the 100mn AB tengu (and is part of the reason that it is so strong, along with sig tanking). The fact of the matter is that in ships like the talos, range is king and the point is to abuse YOUR long range to avoid their damage. Nerfing TE's simply makes the ship more vulnerable, rather than making your target more vulnerable.

The second thing to consider is that this doesn't impact all fights the same way. I agree that this change will likely have very little impact on 1v1 fights, simply because you can adjust your range more or less accordingly. Unfortunately it seems like this is what you're attempting to balance around, saying that "shield kiting is too strong, so lets bring the ships closer to their targets so more dps can be applied to them". But this is wrong. It works in practice in 1v1 fights, but in 2v1 or larger, what happens is that the shield kiting ships must now attempt to keep range at 20km instead of 24km. Now, keeping range on one ship is easy, but attempting to keep range on 3 ships while keeping your target within 24km is much harder. This TE nerf effectively nerfs the range of damage application that ships such as the talos/vaga/cynabal have, so that essentially people in larger gangs are now safer if they burn around such that I have to circle around in my talos. The range is what secures me kills--even when they start to burn away in fights, I can still kill them because I have a lot of falloff.

If you felt that shield ships were too strong because of the damage/range threshold, you should have buffed the range projection of brawling ships. I have no problem with this. Nerfing kiting ships into scram range is dumb though, you're basically forcing the meta of all ships to fight between 0-20km in most cases when really the ideal case is to have a meta where we have ships that engage at all ranges between about 0-50km. (Which is why I think that long point range should be buffed personally, and why I think loki links are imperative--they secure kills by allowing you to abuse longer range weapon systems such as large pulses on the orcale, the talos, etc... and also use a long point at that rnage ~40km).

This is a bad change and was not considered fully enough, it will have little impact on blob pvp, little impact on solo pvp (read 1v1's), but will have significant impact on small scale nano pvp, making it harder to engage larger groups of players by abusing speed and range. This area of the game did not need a nerf. Instead, brawling ships need a buff to bring their survivability (read: escape ability) on par with shield ships, or, at the very least, significantly better.

I think that AB's of all sizes should be significantly buffed

Have the rebalancing team ever actually flown Minmatar ships in falloff? You should know full well that the on-paper EFT DPS that ships such as the Wolf or Stabber get is actually NEVER applied, due to how falloff works. I do not understand what you mean by "Minmatar dominance" when these days all I see are the other races floating about; in my roams across lowsec (most of lowsec even, since I live in a wormhole system with a lowsec static), I have seen many Moas and very few Stabbers for example.

Minmatar NEED falloff in order to pair it with their high speeds in order to kite. Why are people only kiting with missile and railgun boats? Does CCP just not want Minmatar pilots to kite unless they use missiles?

There are only two or three ways this can go down without completely nerfing Minmatar into the ground.

• Hand Minmatar ships increased falloff bonuses, or increase the base falloff of autocannons by a good percentage.
• Increase tracking and lower powergrid needs for artillery considerably so that Minmatar pilots can kite, but only with artillery
• Buff ambit extension rigs considerably. This would lower the flexibility of Minmatar kite fits and thus keep them from doing too many things at once.

I'm very disappointed in these changes as they are proposed now, CCP. I do not know why you want only three out of four races to kite and Minmatar to be forced up close when their speed and agility are so well suited for kiting (and their lower tank as compared to other races encourages them to do so).

A blanket nerf to TE is very lazy and inconsiderate. How about looking individually at what needs rebalancing rather than trying to rush half thought ideas out?

All fights don't happen on gates. Engaging a kiting ship in a ship that is slower than it and doesn't have an ability to catch it is a terrible idea unless you know you can escape.

What is your point? That for active tanked setups close to a gate that can tank a talos for one minute to deaggro this change is benefical? We're talking about a whole range of ships here, not just edge cases. Plus, tbh if you were in a myrm trying to deaggress on a gate all I have to do is sit at 17km and shoot you. TE or not that doesn't change. I already mentioned in my previous post how this is does very little to effect 1v1 scenarios, as range control versus one person is very easy. So your point is moot.

why you no like minmatar ccp, your **** us so hard the past year

Maybe CCP sees the problem with Winmatar and is starting to cut them down making fleet doctrines with other ships, let alone give players the option to fly what they want and not what the top ship is.

^^ this ^^

what about playing the game before proposing changes, rather that doing it based on spreadsheets calculations?

because, while in some case, EFT give a good idea, it doesn't do anything, an damage appliance ingame and in EFT are so far from each other....

what you are actually doing here with TE, is AGAIN giving missiles boat an edge VS the others, while you were on a good path bringing them in line.

caldari missiles boats are dominating, a bit less since last update, but still.
and now, they will be again....