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[Odyssey] Module Rebalancing Part One: RSBs and TEs

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Elektrea
Tech Builds
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2013-03-26 21:31:28 UTC
:swoon:
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#22 - 2013-03-26 21:33:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TCs give far superior tracking bonuses, this narrows the gap for range bonuses.

Ah, thank you, that makes sense.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
KwarK uK
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#23 - 2013-03-26 21:35:07 UTC
At the moment the drugs/implants all give an arbitrary X%, regardless of the thing they're for. This is pretty bad game design because not all stats have equal value, drop will enhance a ship lacking tracking far more than soothsayer will a ship lacking falloff (10% is a negligible amount to falloff but a very considerable boost to tracking). Please rationalise the system so the drug increases are proportional to the modules they're augmenting (maybe add as much to the attribute as a single TE for tracking/optimal/falloff).

You should vote for KwarK for a lowsec presence on CSM8. It's a good idea. I'd do it! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213851
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#24 - 2013-03-26 21:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Roderick Grey
With Blasters hurting for range as it is are CCP sure it's a good idea to further damage Gallente ships, which already suffer drawbacks just to nerf Minmatar superiority?

Perhaps with weapon damage upgrades being Race specific, we could have race-specific Tracking Enhancers each with their own varying buffs aswell?

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
#25 - 2013-03-26 21:39:39 UTC
As a very heavily minmatar specced pilot, I welcome this change. It's been way overdue. Looking forward to more bold iteration.

Minmatar Balancing, 3 suggestions.
Lex Arson
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#26 - 2013-03-26 21:42:50 UTC
Yes please nerf TE's, having **** DPS at acceptable ranges in all kiting ships is more of what we the userbase want

There's no use crying after every mistake, you just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#27 - 2013-03-26 21:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
This hurts Minmatar more than Gallente because Gal almost always have the free mids to run a Tracking Computer, thus your Talos and Megathron will be fine assuming you aren't shield tanking them.

It's a nerf to shield ships with free lows, I.e. Canes, and it is ENTIRELY needed. Oh no Projectiles won't dominate in every single possible way anymore, they only get to still pick damage type, use no cap, and have the highest alpha of any turret. Yes, poor Projectiles.

The Blaster boats won't suffer, and the Minmatar's ability to kite at any distance and still be able to hit fully will be nerfed. It is about time. Thank you Fozzie.

The userbase can deal with flying ships with risk. Currently the same userbase flies almost exclusive caldari/minmatar because you can kite out, apply all your dps, and risk nothing in the engagement. See Drake, See Hurricane for further examples.
Dabigredboat
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2013-03-26 21:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dabigredboat
If you would be so kind ccp fozzie. Explain to me why you would change the range of the TE and not the TC. This dirctly nerfs a fleet ship such as nagas and rokhs who rely on a TE due to shield tank being the dominate form of tank.

Why not change both equally as to adjust the change needed to effect Navy apocs as much as changing the Rokhs role. A Navy Apoc will use two tracking computers the same as a rokh uses two tracking enhances to balance the range ratio.

Any plans to fix the balance this will change in armor to shield fleets?

Example: a navy apoc has the ability to fit two tracking computers without sacraficing its tank or damage to do so. Where as to equal this out, a rokh would have to do one or both to equal the change in ranges. as to add tracking computers removes tanking mods and/or adding another tracking enhancer changes the damage the ship will be doing.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#29 - 2013-03-26 21:47:24 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
This hurts Minmatar more than Gallente because Gal almost always have the free mids to run a Tracking Computer, thus your Talos and Megathron will be fine assuming you aren't shield tanking them.

It's a nerf to shield ships with free lows, I.e. Canes, and it is ENTIRELY needed. Oh no Projectiles won't dominate in every single possible way anymore, they only get to still pick damage type, use no cap, and have the highest alpha of any turret. Yes, poor Projectiles.

The Blaster boats won't suffer, and the Minmatar's ability to kite at any distance and still be able to hit fully will be nerfed. It is about time. Thank you Fozzie.


Armor Taloses are far more inferior compared to Shield and Megathrons are hardly seen in combat, but that's more of a battleship issue.

Blasters boats will suffer, a shield Brutix can hit out to 20km with Null, which is lesser range less speed, less tank, less tracking and only slightly more dps than a cane, Gallente will be affected.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#30 - 2013-03-26 21:48:23 UTC
I suppose I'll have to welcome our new missile spewing overlords.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-03-26 21:49:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
mynnna wrote:
e: nevermind, read the chart wrong.


It's possible that I mistyped something but I can't find anywhere that it has optimal cut in half. This is probably a symptom of the terrible formatting making it hard to read.

It is intended to be a -33% adjustment to both stats.


Yeah, I just read old/old/new/new when it's actually old/new/old/new.

I've gotta say that the effect this will have on projectiles, autocannons especially, concerns me as well. But I'm having trouble deciding if that's actual concern or just me being sad about my imminent Cynabal nerf... Blink

Need to play around with some numbers before I can form a solid opinion.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2013-03-26 21:51:42 UTC
Dabigredboat wrote:
If you would be so kind ccp fozzie. Explain to me why you would change the range of the TE and not the TC. This dirctly nerfs a fleet ship such as nagas and rokhs who rely on a TE due to shield tank being the dominate form of tank.

Why not change both equally as to adjust the change needed to effect Navy apocs as much as changing the Rokhs role. A Navy Apoc will use two tracking computers the same as a rokh uses two tracking enhances to balance the range ratio.

Any plans to fix the balance this will change in armor to shield fleets?


This change is specifically designed to change the balance between TEs and TCs. TEs still give very good range bonuses, decent tracking bonuses, and do it with less than half the fittings cost of a TC.

I know that this will affect 0.0 fleet doctrines, but shaking up doctrines a bit isn't something we consider a negative.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#33 - 2013-03-26 21:53:28 UTC
Out of curiosity, in what class does minmatar currently dominate?

Ill give that the sleipnir is the best CS, the vaga is the best shield hac. and maybe artynados are the best tr3 for blobbing (although nagas are probably better).

This is a very small number of classes
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-26 21:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal
Roderick Grey wrote:
With Blasters hurting for range as it is are CCP sure it's a good idea to further damage Gallente ships, which already suffer drawbacks just to nerf Minmatar superiority?

Perhaps with weapon damage upgrades being Race specific, we could have race-specific Tracking Enhancers each with their own varying buffs aswell?


Lol wat?
Stop trying to kite in a Thorax hull then.

As someone who predominately flies Gallente, I can only think of Talos & terrible kiting Thorax hulls as the ships that routinely fit TEs. Gallente is the best it's been in a long time, and this nerf to TEs just means people are going to be closer to blaster range Blink

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#35 - 2013-03-26 21:58:54 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Out of curiosity, in what class does minmatar currently dominate?

Ill give that the sleipnir is the best CS, the vaga is the best shield hac. and maybe artynados are the best tr3 for blobbing (although nagas are probably better).

This is a very small number of classes


Hurricanes -Were- the king of battlecruisers Tempests are still the best battleship against Supers/carriers in the game, phoons are arguably the best battleship firewall, Cynabal (Yes it's Min/Gallente but it uses projectiles) and the SFI are the most deadly cruisers for small gang and skirmish warfare, the Arty wolf is a solo pvp ship many players swear by as one of, if not the most viable ship for frigate 1v1s, Talwars are an up-and-coming doctrine for 20-50 man fleets, thrashers have always been a popular first choice for newby pvpers and FW veterans alike.

And let's not forget the macherial.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#36 - 2013-03-26 22:00:14 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
This hurts Minmatar more than Gallente because Gal almost always have the free mids to run a Tracking Computer, thus your Talos and Megathron will be fine assuming you aren't shield tanking them.

It's a nerf to shield ships with free lows, I.e. Canes, and it is ENTIRELY needed. Oh no Projectiles won't dominate in every single possible way anymore, they only get to still pick damage type, use no cap, and have the highest alpha of any turret. Yes, poor Projectiles.

The Blaster boats won't suffer, and the Minmatar's ability to kite at any distance and still be able to hit fully will be nerfed. It is about time. Thank you Fozzie.

The userbase can deal with flying ships with risk. Currently the same userbase flies almost exclusive caldari/minmatar because you can kite out, apply all your dps, and risk nothing in the engagement. See Drake, See Hurricane for further examples.

Literally no one armor tanks their Talos.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#37 - 2013-03-26 22:01:39 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
With Blasters hurting for range as it is are CCP sure it's a good idea to further damage Gallente ships, which already suffer drawbacks just to nerf Minmatar superiority?

Perhaps with weapon damage upgrades being Race specific, we could have race-specific Tracking Enhancers each with their own varying buffs aswell?


Lol wat?
Stop trying to kite in a Thorax hull then.

As someone who predominately flies Gallente, I can only think of Talos & terrible kiting Thorax hulls as the ships that routinely fit TEs. Gallente is the best it's been in a long time, and this nerf to TEs just means people are going to be closer to blaster range Blink


If you're fighting outnumbered being in scram-range isn't always a good thing.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
KwarK uK
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#38 - 2013-03-26 22:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: KwarK uK
Roderick Grey wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Out of curiosity, in what class does minmatar currently dominate?

Ill give that the sleipnir is the best CS, the vaga is the best shield hac. and maybe artynados are the best tr3 for blobbing (although nagas are probably better).

This is a very small number of classes


Hurricanes -Were- the king of battlecruisers Tempests are still the best battleship against Supers/carriers in the game, phoons are arguably the best battleship firewall, Cynabal (Yes it's Min/Gallente but it uses projectiles) and the SFI are the most deadly cruisers for small gang and skirmish warfare, the Arty wolf is a solo pvp ship many players swear by as one of, if not the most viable ship for frigate 1v1s, Talwars are an up-and-coming doctrine for 20-50 man fleets, thrashers have always been a popular first choice for newby pvpers and FW veterans alike.

And let's not forget the macherial.

Caracals beat SFIs pretty handily these days, were is the correct word regarding canes which are now obsolete, nobody anywhere is using pest doctrines vs carriers because slowcat blobs are just better, the artywolf is comparable to the slicer and also uses arties which TEs aren't so relevant to (because of the longer optimal), the talwar doesn't even use projectiles, thrashers aren't fit with TEs generally. The cynabal is good largely because of its insane fitting, speed, agility and drone bay, it doesn't especially rely on TEs.

The winmatar complaints are a year out of date now.

You should vote for KwarK for a lowsec presence on CSM8. It's a good idea. I'd do it! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213851
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#39 - 2013-03-26 22:03:25 UTC
Armor tanking is looking better and better.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#40 - 2013-03-26 22:05:17 UTC
Celestises are atm a bit OP. RSB were the only thing to counter them and it needs lot of coordination in a fleet fight to use them effectively.. I really dont see a reason for it to get nerfed.

If people want to not get pointed, it is really easy. Fit the ship properly and u wont get caught. People that want to catch the pray fit their ships properly and damp their fits for RSBs to put.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.