EVE General Discussion

What ways to earn LP are you talking about exactly? You increase LP Bounties on PvP kills it just encourages people to have the same if not MORE alts to farm for it. You institute LP rewards for plexing, your just turning all the Bombers into Griffins(Read Ramad) and the problem isn't solved. Missions are an easy way for small scale PvP pilots such as myself and even Hans to make enough ISK to fuel our PvP addiction. People in Highsec don't PvP and people in Lowsec have Sanctums, Rats and all other forms of money intake that are protected by their Alliance and whatnot. If you take away missions im not going to pretend like its the end of the world. PvP and FW will go on but there will be less of it then before. Because instead of spending a day FW missioning people like me and Hans need to spend three days doing other ways of making ISK.

The trick is to make it easy for people who ACTUALLY are active in FW PvP and/or Plexing to do missions while making it significantly harder for farming alts. Nobody has embraced this idea I think except for me yet, but i will continue to push it. Use the AGENT STANDINGS as a weapon against farming alts. Have agent standings degrade over time and have PvP Kills and losses count towards them significantly, same thing with capping Plexes. Make Missions increase standing but by a significantly decreased amount.

This along with stuff like removing tags from the store list and just have them be turned in for LP, and a slightly increased PvP bounty and a slightly decreased LP reward for missions will decrease the amount of Farming alts IMMENSELY. Besides balancing issues for the amount of standings increase/decrease I cannot see any downside to my idea. Yes some of the alts may just start whoring on kills and/or plexes. But it is still the best way to keep FW missions while discouraging Farming alts. IMO anyway

I understand its easy to believe that all FW mission runners are alts, but there are still plenty of legitimate FW pilots farming their missions not for the sake of getting rich, but for the sake of making sure they have plenty of ships to sustain everyday PvP. What is wrong with this scenario?

And yes, those farming missions can most certainly provide PvP targets for militia members on both sides. At least running FW missions, you are placing a giant target on your head and begging people to come gank you in the process. Fix the AI so that bombers are no longer viable, and you'll see plenty of PvP surrounding the missions again as designed. I guarantee it.

We are usually quite proficient at detecting who's out running missions in an alt only to take the isk out of the FW community, and who actually PvP's with the income they make with them. Plenty of intra-militia wardecs have cropped up when a corp or individual is abusing this system.

I'm fine with FW income being shifted elsewhere, but thats just it, it has to be shifted, NOT simply eliminated. Otherwise you're just creating an unsustainable system where FW pilots are expected to hang around their warzone constantly and be active in fleets, but don't have a local source of income to replace losses.

In previous threads I have suggesting hamstringing mission whores by tying missions to PvP and plexing.

1. All FW mission payouts cut in half across the board.
2. Pilot kills someone or closes plex and is assigned X Virtual LP (think Incursion LP).
3. Pilot runs mission and receives the payout (50% of now) + up to 50% extra provided the amount is available in vLP.

Gives you Lvl4's that are roughly equal to high-sec lvl4's in regards to income for the farmers while giving full (current) value to the active FW players to support their losses.
Combine it with a redesign of plexes/missions to eliminate solo frigs and you are good to go .. can be gamed by killing alt for vLP (at ISK+time loss) and then running missions but I seriously doubt anyone will go that far unless vLP-for-Kills is set stupidly high.

Here is an example of why it would be nice not to have supercaps mucking about in low sec:

http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=220392

Amarr FC calls in PL...

Susan Black's excellent write up of the whole evening:

http://www.gamerchick.net/2011/10/revenge-of-nerf-herders.html

1. PL doesn't need supers to do this. It's not like their members are incapable of flying anything else.
2. Any alliance with the numbers and the interest any can do this. "Oh, a militia fight, *splat*."

So you're annoyed with PL, which is merely an alliance that has decided to do things like this: jump in with overwhelming firepower and spoil Hans Jagerblitzen's chosen play. These damned single-shard servers, they let just anyone decide on their own to live in Amamake!

But don't worry, if only supers were banned from lowsec, certainly nobody would apply any other method to achieve the same end!

But don't worry, if only PL were paid to go away, certainly nobody else would ever decide to live in Amamake!

But don't worry, if only we can destroy Amamake, certainly ]nobody else will decide to live in Auga instead! (obvious fake suggestion.)

But don't worry, if only ... certainly nobody ...

No. FW isn't a feature running on its own server. This is bunk. Especially when so much of PL's wickedness consists of "yeah, you want us to come in? Really? OK!" What devils.



Actually, you can buy supercaps. You know, like you buy all the other stuff you don't produce yourself. The main reason to expect FW to not have them is because militias are populated by the sort of people who joined the militia instead of a nullsec alliance - likewise there aren't a lot of FW hulks doing mining ops in militia space, even if defending ops like that might be fun.

So the militias aren't 'defenseless'; they're 'undefended'. But there are lots of things they're undefended against. For instance, suppose a large alliance decided on its own to 'invade' FW space. Camp all the gates, all the stations. Sweep through constellations in fleets that militia can't beat simply because they're horribly outnumbered. What would you want to nerf in this case? The ability of non-militia to use stargates in FW space? What? What?

Rather than continue in this vein, here's the basic problem with your suggestions: you have a patient sick with the flu, and you're terribly excited by - and wanting to fix - all kinds of random-ass symptoms that he has. His palms are sweaty : REMOVE HIS SWEATGLANDS. He just coughed hard : BIND HIS CHEST, STOP THAT **** RIGTH NOW. If FW were vibrant and active and not sick, PL would be counter-dropped. Hypothetical camp-everything giant alliance would be run out. Amamake would be under siege.

You have some good ideas about FW. Run with those, and drop this, because this is bad, it won't happen, it wouldn't begin to solve anything if it happened.

Can't produce pirate frigs with just Empire. Can't produce T2 with just highsec. Can't produce T3 with just k-space. This is a nonsense argument that sounds good only until you think about it. "Can be produced in" has nothing at all to do with "can be used in".



Or, in plain words, "they're really tough". They're tougher than both militias over here.

So some brave lowsec PvPers are arguing that supers should be from banned from lowsec because

1. of a transparently unserious argument that would suggest that Dramiels shouldn't be seen outside of Curse, or something; and because

2. The militias shouldn't be exposed to forces more powerful than they.

It's fine to say "getting dropped by PL sucks", but this doesn't follow from it. This is bad and dumb and I refuse to consider that some CCP EasilyConvinced will burst into a meeting and successfully sell this proposal without anyone raising the question of "How will this make Eve better?", to be followed by CCP EasilyConvinced's rendition of #1 and #2 above, to be followed by awkward, embarrassed silence.

FW isn't a feature in its own server. We don't own lowsec. It's not evough to say that we find something irritating. Why shouldn't other people have their Avatars in lowsec? If I'm expressing my opposition with some vehemence, it's largely because it seems to me that Hans and others are so clearly in love with the ludicrous arguments above that no serious, there-are-other-people-on-this-server arguments will be forthcoming. You're not even trying to make good arguments for this proposal, and that you keep pushing it just sabotages anything else you come up with, both because you're talking about this proposal instead of a potentially good one, and because when you do talk about a good one people will need to first get over having associated you with this bad one.

You are clearly guy who have no idea what FW plexing is, go and try to get systems back that minmatar has taken, and i am sure you will find that PVE is not only thing that prevents you.

And how this is related to FW? You have been fought on pos, Poses has nothing to do with FW.

Some people use FW to achieve goals that are not really part of FW.

Asking that remove supercaps because of it ruins FW has nothing to do with this battlereport.