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Why can't I hold all this crying?
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Rovn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-03-22 20:42:08 UTC
CAPSULEERS ARE IMPORTANT! Big smile
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#22 - 2013-03-22 22:31:31 UTC
Take a look at EVE Kill, just as a rough guide.

See how many battleships took part?

If 1000 Battleships shot the same target as the Caladari Navy then they'd have downed each of the Gallente dreads in short order.

There ya go, an opportunity for player influence.

That so many chose to fly frigs, cruisers and destroyers and shoot each other tells you why it didn't have to be scripted.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#23 - 2013-03-22 22:52:45 UTC
FCORD put fleet of 220 onto the field. It didn't stay at 220 the whole fight, as some didn't have reships after they had losses etc. But that fleet of 220 were there to engage the titan (Not initially but once RP occured and it became obvious the Titan was going to engage the planet to the point of going as far as to shoot concord when concord ruled planetary bombardment against the Yulai convention).
This was also not the only Capsuleer fleet that was there to engage the titan.

Why I say this... well, you claim Capsuleers didn't influence the event. I consider this an argument that capsuleers did influence this event and that capsuleers decided the titan was going down. FCORD was a large enough fleet that had we weighed in on the Caldari side because they were refusing to bombard the planet and the Gallente then engaged claiming they were going to demolish Caldari cities till Heth surrendered, then we would have evened out the balance of firepower.

As there were not twenty or thirty Moros. At our count, done before & during the Event it was 14 vs 10 Dreads. Roughly even numbers of Carriers & Super Carriers (Advantage Caldari here initially) & no Gallente titan. It's possible we miscounted but I'd love to see an overview screenshot if you are claiming twenty or thirty dreads on the field for the Gallente totally outnumbering the Caldari. So the 1500-2000 capsuleers in the system during the fight certainly held the balance of power.
William Loire
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-03-22 22:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: William Loire
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Take a look at EVE Kill, just as a rough guide.

See how many battleships took part?

If 1000 Battleships shot the same target as the Caladari Navy then they'd have downed each of the Gallente dreads in short order.

There ya go, an opportunity for player influence.

That so many chose to fly frigs, cruisers and destroyers and shoot each other tells you why it didn't have to be scripted.


I missed the part where all 1000 Battleships were not only on grid at the same time but each and everyone was a Caldari supporter.

And how exactly were 750 Caldari players (being generous here) of varying corporations, alliances and TS channels, going to organize coherently as well as figure out exactly what the Caldari fleet was attacking? And how exactly would this magically organized fleet have taken down all 20 Moros' before CCP Falcon, or whoever was FC'ing, decided to primary the titan and instantly melt it? Especially while they are under fire from an equally sized Gallente force?

"Man this **** is so easy they should have just organized stupid Caldari. Twenty strong Moros fleets are easily dispatched by subcapital fleets all the tiiiiimmmee."

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
.


The Caldari NPC fleet was outnumbered due to (reasonable) lore reasons. I would also like to point out the extreme difference in damage potential between a Phoenix and a Moros. All else being equal the Moros will melt the Phoenix every. single. time. We're talking about the most powerful dreadnaught versus the weakest dreadnaught.

In some regards you're correct. Had no Gallente capsuleers arrived then the fight may have gone the other way (unlikely though because the Moros fleet was strong enough to vaporize the Titan nearly instantly, not to mention there were unfielded backups in Luminaire at the time as well.) However both the Caldari and the Gallente showed up. Tthe Gallente NPC fleet could not be stopped by the Caldari capsuleer fleet with everything else going on.
William Loire
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-03-22 22:54:20 UTC
*double post*
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#26 - 2013-03-22 23:20:45 UTC
William Loire wrote:
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Take a look at EVE Kill, just as a rough guide.

See how many battleships took part?

If 1000 Battleships shot the same target as the Caladari Navy then they'd have downed each of the Gallente dreads in short order.

There ya go, an opportunity for player influence.

That so many chose to fly frigs, cruisers and destroyers and shoot each other tells you why it didn't have to be scripted.


I missed the part where all 1000 Battleships were not only on grid at the same time but each and everyone was a Caldari supporter.

And how exactly were 750 Caldari players (being generous here) of varying corporations, alliances and TS channels, going to organize coherently as well as figure out exactly what the Caldari fleet was attacking? And how exactly would this magically organized fleet have taken down all 20 Moros' before CCP Falcon, or whoever was FC'ing, decided to primary the titan and instantly melt it? Especially while they are under fire from an equally sized Gallente force?

"Man this **** is so easy they should have just organized stupid Caldari. Twenty strong Moros fleets are easily dispatched by subcapital fleets all the tiiiiimmmee."

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
.


The Caldari NPC fleet was outnumbered due to (reasonable) lore reasons. I would also like to point out the extreme difference in damage potential between a Phoenix and a Moros. All else being equal the Moros will melt the Phoenix every. single. time. We're talking about the most powerful dreadnaught versus the weakest dreadnaught.

In some regards you're correct. Had no Gallente capsuleers arrived then the fight may have gone the other way (unlikely though because the Moros fleet was strong enough to vaporize the Titan nearly instantly, not to mention there were unfielded backups in Luminaire at the time as well.) However both the Caldari and the Gallente showed up. Tthe Gallente NPC fleet could not be stopped by the Caldari capsuleer fleet with everything else going on.


Agreed. When talking about the Caldari fleet that actually had showed up.
But that doesn't mean the event was scripted. It meant that the Caldari failed to realise the potential to change the outcome.
The FCORD fleet took a little while, but then we got ontop of how to follow the Moros targets and further focused the DPS onto single targets overwhelming reps faster. Before that we had shot our own Cap down already. So the potential existed for the Caldari side to have achieved similar results, both in melting their own Moros without Dread support, & in following the Phoenix targets. Just watch the missiles.

Was it harder for the Caldari to organise, yes, agreed. But was it possible.... Thats the part you have to look at. And the answer is actually it was possible. There were enough reps on the field to mostly counter the Moros DPS if they tried melting the titan direct, and there was enough DPS to drop the moros slowly counting just the caldari navy fleet. Meaning a 220 man Caldari fleet would have had enough Reps to make up the balance on the titan, & plenty of DPS to speed up the Moros dying. And once the Moros started dying faster, the advantage would slowly slide more & more into the Caldari side.
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
#27 - 2013-03-22 23:33:12 UTC
Derdrom Utida wrote:
What happened wasn't sandbox, everything was scripted and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh

You can't tell a story in EVE and truly involve the players because they'll just destroy everything and then spam local, every time. We're lucky that we were able to see an important Titan according to the lore go down at all.

BUT CCP SAID THAT WE CAPSULEERS ARE IMPORTANT. HOW DARE THEY LIE TO US

Only way this could have been avoided is if they handwaved everything, and that's lamer than allowing people to be there as events unfold. You're entitled, and in reality, this doesn't affect the gameplay of any capsuleer at all. This is just lore, and is for people that RP. Not everything is to be catered to you.


It is nobody's fault except Heth and the Capsuleers supporting the scum known as the Caldari. I was there supporting my allies and representing the Republic. The Caldari made quite a few mistakes and could not control the distance of the engagement and underestimated the Capsuleer force supporting the Federation. Heth has nobody to blame except himself and his "loyal" empyrean army...
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#28 - 2013-03-23 00:37:42 UTC
They said you would be able to influence events.

They never said it would be fair.

Since when has EVE ever been about fairness?
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
#29 - 2013-03-23 01:06:18 UTC
Can someone show me where it specifically said you would be able to stop the titan getting popped?

you see, i read 'the events can be influenced by players' ...

that to me means that the end result of who CONTROLS Caldari Prime can be influenced.
not that you can stop a rather impressive story-arc within the battle for control of caldari prime from happening.

seriously. all these tears, while amusing, are in danger of drowning the hamsters.
HTFU.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#30 - 2013-03-23 01:16:18 UTC
iyammarrok wrote:
Can someone show me where it specifically said you would be able to stop the titan getting popped?

you see, i read 'the events can be influenced by players' ...

that to me means that the end result of who CONTROLS Caldari Prime can be influenced.
not that you can stop a rather impressive story-arc within the battle for control of caldari prime from happening.

seriously. all these tears, while amusing, are in danger of drowning the hamsters.
HTFU.

Even if it was possible, they didn't achieve the IC situation to enable them to have even a chance at it. The Capsuleers present were overwhelmingly supporting the Gallente fleet at the time. So they are crying it was scripted despite the fact the outcome matches the Capsuleers who were present actions. I.E. Sour grapes.
If they had achieved Caldari Capsuleer superiority in a significant way, and the titan had still been popped and they had all achieved no impact, then I would have some sympathy.
Della Monk
Monastery of Drakes
#31 - 2013-03-23 02:14:39 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
They said you would be able to influence events.

They never said it would be fair.

Since when has EVE ever been about fairness?


Quoted for ******* truth.
If you want to claim that CCP flat-out lied and pushed a button to make the titan blow up after a certain amount of time, I've got some tinfoil to sell you.

If you want to ***** that an empire can out-blob somebody in their own damn space and that it should have been a 'fair fight', find a new game.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#32 - 2013-03-23 02:36:40 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
They said you would be able to influence events.

They never said it would be fair.

Since when has EVE ever been about fairness?


Ha! very true.

I've been reading through the Dev blog and it does appear that, to a certain degree, things were a bit predetermined. Now I'm not so much complaining as a bit disappointed (as I've mentioned before it was expected for me) but CCP obviously has an overall story arch that their attempting to accomplish.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#33 - 2013-03-23 06:29:41 UTC
Derdrom Utida wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Derdrom Utida wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
You're right but being right doesn't change the fact that CCP lied by advertising the event as being one that could be influenced. And they didn't need to lie. And people don't like being lied to.


You're also right that CCP should've made the event more friendlier to blobbing.

But this whole notion that Live Events can be steered by smallsons that fleet up and head out to ~ruin the RP'ers fun~ is stupid. CCP should get up, distance themselves from the "emergent gameplay" crowd and focus on telling the story their way, and allowing capsuleers to just watch.

You know, it not a single one of your posts do you acknowledge the lie that occurred. It just hit me.


CCP claimed that capsuleers would have more of a say in this event, and didn't pull through. Lie acknowledged, my point still stands.


Or someone say caldari FW could have send say 300 basi's to rep the titan or bring a shitton of neuting battleships to neut the morses. That didn't happen. Don't cry because you failed to do what was needed.
Most eve players are unorganized and want to kil things so the titan died.
Pepper Mind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-23 08:43:45 UTC
Quote:
CCP claimed that capsuleers would have more of a say in this event, and didn't pull through. Lie acknowledged, my point still stands.


Maybe most of the players did not recognize their influence. Maybe a support-fleet was waiting, but
- werent able to pass the gate because of the massive amount of players in system
-was scared to bring a shiny support Tengu-Fleet, because capsuleers would be focussed on destroying them
-support fleet was scared by local, especially because of very experienced player alliances there

Maybe the event would have been different, if just everyone would have watched the stream.
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