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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

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unbless83
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#141 - 2013-03-13 12:56:28 UTC
looking forward to runnin a few tests around an arty firetail, my old one used to volley about 1 to 1.5k dmg with a dedicated alpha fit...

hoping for consistant over 1k alpha blap :D

Aussies are the unicorns of eve... rare and horny
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#142 - 2013-03-13 13:03:41 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage

Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%.


The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out.

Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets.

The applied DPS is similar.

Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers?

Friends
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2013-03-13 14:33:01 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage

Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%.


The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out.

Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets.

The applied DPS is similar.

Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers?



well there is ONE, but it is not exactly under the scrutiny of "game balance" :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#144 - 2013-03-13 16:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
pyronatic wrote:
As a Gallente Militia Pilot, There's 2 Stats I think that should be changed or looked at again. These Changes are based off by comparing the Tristan to the Comet, Since the Tristan is the tech 1 Variant of the Comet. The targeting range, The Tristan has a base range of 40 km and the Comet has 37.5 km, So for a kiting purpose with drones a Tristan beats the Comet. I think the comet should have at least an equal base range. The second is the drone capacity the Tristan gets a 40 m3 drone bay and the Comet has a 30 m3 drone bay, also the Tristan can launch 5 drones compared to the Comets 3 so its much easier for the Tristan to eliminate the Comet's drones from the fight. I think by giving the Comet 2 more light drones in it's drone bay would make the Comet more appealing to fly than a Tristan. These are just my thought's on the Comet.


"Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30"

"Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km (+5) / 650 (+30) / 5 (+1)"

I would have to say that that is working as intended. The Comet gets 2 double damage bonused guns. The Tristan gets 2 guns. Seems fair to me that the Tristan does a bit more drone DPS, but suffers in gun DPS...

To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets.

The applied DPS is similar.

Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers?



well there is ONE, but it is not exactly under the scrutiny of "game balance" :P

Riot pls

More Raven State Issues.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#145 - 2013-03-13 17:36:50 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:

To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
The comet is an awesomely fun ship to fly and is a near perfect synthesis of all the Gallente frigates. Part taranis, part enyo, with a little ishkur and ares thrown in too.

Be careful about asking for more drones. They'll nerf the hell out of ship stats because that's what CCP does to drone boats.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2013-03-13 17:46:52 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
The comet is an awesomely fun ship to fly and is a near perfect synthesis of all the Gallente frigates. Part taranis, part enyo, with a little ishkur and ares thrown in too.

Be careful about asking for more drones. They'll nerf the hell out of ship stats because that's what CCP does to drone boats.

It might be just me but I would be willing to give up the utility high for and extra 10mbps and 10m3 drone bay. Would need to lose a little CPU and a tiny amount of grid. But leave the drones in bonused.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#147 - 2013-03-13 17:52:02 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

It might be just me but I would be willing to give up the utility high for and extra 10mbps and 10m3 drone bay. Would need to lose a little CPU and a tiny amount of grid. But leave the drones in bonused.

The utility high slot does nothing w.r.t increasing potential dps, so while you and I might love that tradeoff I don't think CCP would. They'd have to nerf something else as well.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#148 - 2013-03-13 17:52:06 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

To me it seems that the Comet is more similar to the Incursus. It's primary damage is its weapons, but as a boon over the Incursus it gets a moderate amount of supplementary damage from its drones.
The comet is an awesomely fun ship to fly and is a near perfect synthesis of all the Gallente frigates. Part taranis, part enyo, with a little ishkur and ares thrown in too.

Be careful about asking for more drones. They'll nerf the hell out of ship stats because that's what CCP does to drone boats.


That's an interesting way of looking at it, but I think I'd have to agree with you. It really is a great ship that pulls off "Gallente", as opposed to one single aspect of it.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#149 - 2013-03-13 19:17:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage

Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%.


The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out.

Missile damage is unaffected by falloff and tracking disruption. The same cannot be said for turrets.

The applied DPS is similar.

Why do you think there are no ships in the game with 8 launchers?



well there is ONE, but it is not exactly under the scrutiny of "game balance" :P

If your referring to the State Issue Raven, I am of the understanding that the last one blew up.

I may be wrong.

Friends
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2013-03-13 20:17:09 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

It might be just me but I would be willing to give up the utility high for and extra 10mbps and 10m3 drone bay. Would need to lose a little CPU and a tiny amount of grid. But leave the drones in bonused.

The utility high slot does nothing w.r.t increasing potential dps, so while you and I might love that tradeoff I don't think CCP would. They'd have to nerf something else as well.

That is true, but on the other hand it would be like the thorax of frigates, pure gank. To keep it in that category they could reduce the drone bay by 5 m3 and then remove utility high and up bandwidth by 10mbps. But that would make it too good in some cases.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#151 - 2013-03-14 00:48:13 UTC
I'm for dropping the utility high on the INS for a med, just because it will completely break the ship by allowing it to carry a TD =P
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#152 - 2013-03-14 07:50:35 UTC
Could a nerf to unbonused TD's (Optimal) follow this hookbill stuff please?


TD's are the only ewar on unbonused ships that can totally shut down the enemies offense with only one module and the hookbill is one of the biggest abusers of that.

As things stand, mainly because of how effective td's are, mid slots on frigates are worth about three times what any other slot is worth.

Point and case --> http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42604

That heron has no tank, no dps and should not be able to fight anything really. But slap two webs and a TD on there and it just turns into a question of engaging and waiting. Just about every other frig you fight these days that has the midslots for it is using td's and i get it i've abused them a fair bit myself after all..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-03-14 10:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tub Chil
Cap buff was what navy ships really needed, all of them are getting it so i'm happy
+some extra defense.
firetail still does miserable damage unfortunately
Quote:

TD whine
TD whine everywhere

I'm sorry but isn't ECM the type of ewar we need to whine about? or LML condors introduced new kind of whine FOTM?
I remember just few months ago some people were saying that TD is not bad as it halves optimal or tracking and everyone else was screaming 'dat's nothin'
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#154 - 2013-03-14 10:57:50 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Cap buff was what navy ships really needed, all of them are getting it so i'm happy
+some extra defense.
firetail still does miserable damage unfortunately
Quote:

TD whine
TD whine everywhere

I'm sorry but isn't ECM the type of ewar we need to whine about? or LML condors introduced new kind of whine FOTM?
I remember just few months ago some people were saying that TD is not bad as it halves optimal or tracking and everyone else was screaming 'dat's nothin'


Yes because EVERYONE is using unbonused ECM

Stop being bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#155 - 2013-03-14 11:27:47 UTC
A Hawk could have killed a loki yesterday, is the Hawk OP ?

The TD didn't killed this Merlin, the double web did.

I'll cite myself from the other thread if you don't mind :
Quote:
Why should a mid slot module costing that many CPU not have a significant effect on the ennemy ship ? There is no reason to use a useless module, and affecting significantly the ennemy ship or your ship is the definition of useful. That's why there is no ECM outside of bonused ships : because they are useless without bonuses. And that's why SD are so rare : they are only useful in very specific situations.

EWAR provide deepness to the game because it allow to break the tank/dps/mobility scheeme. That's a good thing.


In fact, ECM should be buffed. There is counters to TD already, easy counters. In fact, all these TD fit only exists because of the mightyness of blaster frigates at point blanc range. This TD fashion is only the meta evolving to counter blasters, and when counters to TD will popularize, meta will change again, and blaster frigs will come again on top, etc. Rock, Paper, Scissors.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-03-14 12:06:41 UTC
id jjust like to point out that you can now get a Hookbill stable with MWD and Longpoint without thee need of cap modules or rigs, woot kitting light missile hookbill jusst got better.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#157 - 2013-03-14 12:33:29 UTC
Yeeeah, Firetail get's cap and can finally run like a armor rifter, but on steroids!!1
And the dps increase is fcuking A. As is the CPU increase. :)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#158 - 2013-03-14 16:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
A Hawk could have killed a loki yesterday, is the Hawk OP ?

The TD didn't killed this Merlin, the double web did.

I'll cite myself from the other thread if you don't mind :
Quote:
Why should a mid slot module costing that many CPU not have a significant effect on the ennemy ship ? There is no reason to use a useless module, and affecting significantly the ennemy ship or your ship is the definition of useful. That's why there is no ECM outside of bonused ships : because they are useless without bonuses. And that's why SD are so rare : they are only useful in very specific situations.

EWAR provide deepness to the game because it allow to break the tank/dps/mobility scheeme. That's a good thing.


In fact, ECM should be buffed. There is counters to TD already, easy counters. In fact, all these TD fit only exists because of the mightyness of blaster frigates at point blanc range. This TD fashion is only the meta evolving to counter blasters, and when counters to TD will popularize, meta will change again, and blaster frigs will come again on top, etc. Rock, Paper, Scissors.



Not at all, no mwd so one web would have been enough :P But if those had been t2 blasters however it would have been the TD

I was killing a dual rep incursus with neutrons and null with the same fit (took ages though so he brought friends) and without the TD there would be no chance of that. The fact is that that heron fit can kill most turret frigates with relative ease even though all its stats are absolute shite just because of that TD.


And no its not just a blaster thing.. Td's are just as good at shutting down lasers and AC's (Range bonused 200mm AC's being the only exception)

Its not easy to counter, thats just bullshit (Unless you count flying only missile ships as a counter). The fact is that TD's are by FAR the most powerful of the unbonused ewar. A properly piloted td hookbill kills ALL turret frigates/dessies assuming it can get scram on them 8/10.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-03-14 18:43:28 UTC
I'm with you Garviel 100%

Standard TDs are way overpowered at the moment.

They either need to be nerfed to 20-30%, or their cap use needs to be so high that they cannot be perma-run.

I'm happy for the hulls with bonuses though (like arbi's etc).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#160 - 2013-03-14 19:33:56 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:

Standard TDs are way overpowered at the moment.

They kind of encourage players to fly missile and drone boats, don't they?