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New blog: All quiet on the EVE Launcher front?

First post First post
Author
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#81 - 2013-03-12 00:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
PS in general I think use of bittorrent is a giant step forward. Just needs a safety net for first hour of release and for when its not working at all for particular networks/users.


Plus if you design launcher with eye to the future, you realize bittorrent may not always be king of file distribution.
Laconis Dax
Laurentson INC
#82 - 2013-03-12 01:34:31 UTC
Sounds like a good idea, CCP, as long as the launcher will by default stop seeding after the download is complete. But it would be an even BETTER idea if we could get some granular control over our seeding options: A "Stop seeding at ratio ___" option would be phenomenal, as would as a way to specify the upload speed cap. And if you really wanted to keep us techheads happy, give us "Seed for at most / at least ___ hours" options...
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#83 - 2013-03-12 01:52:45 UTC
Surprised how self-critical you are of the launcher, after the botched first release I really liked it, never had a failed patch since und patching runs much smoother. Guess I was lucky with my stable connection.

Torrent, well why not. Although I somehow suspect that saving bandwidth may be a factor for CCP here ^^

.

Juniorama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-03-12 01:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Juniorama
CCP Aporia wrote:
This is also one of the reasons why we want to bring it to a test server near you soon, so that we can gain more experience with how the mechanism would perform for people behind restrictive firewalls / ISPs.


Can't wait to give this a go, as I spend a lot of time in China on business. The Great Firewall being great can make patch days a real chore. If my client corrupts I can just about forget it. Sad

In other news, a gaming content provider that rhymes with s team is an excellent platform for downloading games behind said greatness. Blink
Tiflane
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-03-12 02:19:03 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
my router crashes if I have more than 10-12 active connections, so I hope we will be able to limit the connection count or force HTTP (as other games allow the user to do).


You really need a new router. Only 12 connections is ridiculous.


Except that's not always a choice, as in my case where it's actually built into the LoS dish before going into the house and the main household router (which obviously does not have such issues.)

So yeah, lots of connections and lots of upstream crashes out my internet connection, so torrents are a no-go. So long as that part of it can be disabled, I'll be happy with the plain old style transfer.
Ryans Revenge
Drunken Wookies
#86 - 2013-03-12 03:49:43 UTC
The problem with this is that a lot of UK isp's lower your internet speed if you download over a certain amount over torrents.

So my 120meg net will be dropped to 20meg if your patch is bigger than 1gig or something. Really ******* sucks that your going to ****** torrents that isp's don't like and flag as illegal downloads... Sigh
Verite Rendition
F.R.E.E. Explorer
#87 - 2013-03-12 04:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Verite Rendition
I apologize if this has already been posted, but I had a thought.

CCP will be in control of everything, including the tracker, right? So why don't you modify your tracker to scrub all the clients from the peer list, leaving only the CCP CDNs?

This means no two clients would be able to connect to each other, and consequently clients could only connect to the CCP BitTorrent seeds and the web seeds. The significance of this being that it does a complete runaround on any concerns about P2P transfers; no customer's upload bandwidth would be getting used to distribute the game, which is what makes people so antsy. This lets you use the BitTorrent protocol to distribute files, but still in a client-server topography rather than P2P.

On a side note, I can see why you want to do this. I've put together torrents in the past for the Mac users, using the CCP CDNs as webseeds, as for some reason Mac users are prone to having the DMG get corrupt in transport. It worked well for the few users that were having problems. Though that was using solely web seeds without any use of the BitTorrent protocol (and P2P transfers) itself. So I'm surprised to hear you guys are having problems with HTTP range download requests, as I've always found those to be very reliable. But I guess this game serves some pretty odd clients in some pretty far-off locations...

All of this will definitely require some testing. I'm sure the web seed component will work fine for anyone who can easily download the client today, but the BitTorrent protocol does raise the ire of some ISPs (particularly those that are heavily oversubscribed). I'd almost think you want to use it as a fallback protocol, for whenever HTTP range downloads aren't working. Otherwise HTTP is for lack of a better word "friendlier" and less likely to raise a flag with crotchety ISPs. It would also help in that case to greatly limit the number of connections; there shouldn't be any need to run more than a few connections at once if P2P transfers are disabled. This again makes ISPs happier, plus it's nicer on old routers that hurl if faced with too many connections.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-03-12 05:07:25 UTC
Verry much apreciated!

After this UNIFY ACOUNTS
and REVAMP POS!!!!
Mr Garo
Perkone
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-03-12 06:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Garo
I'm all in for using bittorrent for getting patches.

We recently had a problem where Steam released a big amount of patches just as we started a lan party of 1000 people. The amount of Steam patches flooded our 1Gbps internet connection for an entire day! If Steam would have been using Bittorrent to distribute the patch files there wouldn't be any problems.

- Mr Garo
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#90 - 2013-03-12 08:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
I honestly have no idea what kind of problems that change will fix but I never had any problems with patches in the first place. I have good intertubez connection and never waited more than few minutes for download and installation of new patch/expansion. Perfect when you just got back from work and need to put your dinner to the oven and prepare some salad while Eve is updating itself.

But obviously metrics show something disturbing enough to be worth fixing because metrics are never wrong. Funny they don't show how much of needless hassle is switching between toons on same account, maybe then launcher would gain magic powers to handle that too.

Invalid signature format

Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#91 - 2013-03-12 08:30:38 UTC
I for one will enjoy this protocol. If it means that the client's can update themselves off of one another more easily then that's good. Also if the launcher will let me get my multi-boxed up and running quicker then that too will be great!

ALSO. I will be setting my system to always be sharing the installers. And if my ISP goes all pissy about P2P then I will send them a pissy letter :)

Nice Work CCP
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2013-03-12 09:07:19 UTC
Oh that's just great. So for those of us whose ISPs (Virgin National in my case, but this is very common) do traffic shaping and deep packet inspection we can now look forward to a stellar 10-20kbps download speed on patches before 11 at night.

Why not delete the boot.ini while you're at it just for another twist of the knife?
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#93 - 2013-03-12 09:09:40 UTC
Verite Rendition wrote:
I apologize if this has already been posted, but I had a thought.

CCP will be in control of everything, including the tracker, right? So why don't you modify your tracker to scrub all the clients from the peer list, leaving only the CCP CDNs?

This means no two clients would be able to connect to each other, and consequently clients could only connect to the CCP BitTorrent seeds and the web seeds.


They want to use your bandwidth, saving them money, obviously.
Inquisitor Tyr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2013-03-12 09:10:12 UTC
I've never had any problems with the launcher. But while were on the subject, if you were to make it easier to launch multiple clients I'd be somewhat satisifed.

# of clients to Launch : ____ [ LAUNCH BUTTON ]
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#95 - 2013-03-12 09:20:49 UTC
From beginning to end, whatever I read I heard in my head in the voice of Shala'Raan from Mass Effect... Shocked

I still think the EVE Launcher is obsolete and we can do well enough without it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#96 - 2013-03-12 09:33:10 UTC
Two things that are related to the launcher even if they are not about the protocol.


1) CCP, please change that absolutely avoidable and annoying behavior that happens when one starts two launchers by mistake. Big annoying modal popup "Multiple instances blah blah". Just make the old window go to the foreground. Knowing that behind the scenes it checked for a window handle and found a duplicate does not mean the end user has to be notified, just pop the old launcher up and be done with it.


2) I have my default browser set to Firefox. I also have Chrome.

Guess what happens every time I press a link on the launcher?

A damn Internet Explorer is started.

Please either implement:

- a right click menu where I can choose which browser to use to look at the links

- a right click menu where I can at least copy the URL on the clipboard so I can start the browser myself.

- a mouseover event that shows the pointed to URL on some status bar or a tooltip.

- or maybe, just do it right and make so that the launcher uses the brower I have actually chosen as system default. Blink
Eudora
Royal Productions
#97 - 2013-03-12 09:34:31 UTC
Inquisitor Tyr wrote:
I've never had any problems with the launcher. But while were on the subject, if you were to make it easier to launch multiple clients I'd be somewhat satisifed.

# of clients to Launch : ____ [ LAUNCH BUTTON ]



Thumbs up.

Today running multi account's, One have to click the "Launch button" a few times depending on how many account's you got, then all start on the same screen, after this we have to enter ESC menu to pick what monitor we want the account on.

There should be some way for the client after logon to remember the monitor and setting it was last set to, so that we only need to click the ESC menu the first time we log on after instal/patch, or want to change monitor or setting.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#98 - 2013-03-12 09:51:24 UTC
I totally approve of the use of BitTorrent as a means to spread the update data. It's reliable and fast.
Also, using encryption on it tends to bypass those people who don't like P2P tranfers. And I'm sure you will have a regular download backup for the places where people can't use P2P.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?

Mashie Saldana
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#99 - 2013-03-12 09:52:26 UTC
Whatever happened with the idea of having a tabbed client for multi client users?
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#100 - 2013-03-12 10:15:58 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Surprised how self-critical you are of the launcher, after the botched first release I really liked it, never had a failed patch since und patching runs much smoother. Guess I was lucky with my stable connection.

Torrent, well why not. Although I somehow suspect that saving bandwidth may be a factor for CCP here ^^

It's a case of looking at the numbers of people who are unable to patch. The single point of failure when using only HTTP/1.1 has proven to be a weakness and we want to fix that for those users who are only able to patch by downloading the full installer.