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New blog: All quiet on the EVE Launcher front?

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CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-03-11 15:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
CCP Aporia and friends are working on the launcher and how updates are delivered to your EVE client. Please check out their latest dev blog right here and don't hesitate to launch your comments and questions our way!

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-03-11 15:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Aethlyn
Sounds interesting. I just hope you include your own torrent handling and don't use any abomination such as that dreaded Pando Media Booster. :)

Also, I'd suggest by default the launcher should ask on first start, whether it should use bittorrent connections or just classic HTTP, because at least in Germany, some ISPs (like universities or some mobile providers) don't like to see P2P traffic and will outright block, slowdown or sanctionize it (e.g. by cutting your internet access if there're too high P2P Transfers). Always think of unaware/non-savy computer users/players.

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Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#3 - 2013-03-11 15:40:24 UTC
I literally didn't get most of that dev blog or it's meaning, other then the impression EVE will now be found on Pirate Bay.

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aerionx
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-11 15:40:42 UTC
I think this is a good change, so many other games use it, its tried and tested :D
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#5 - 2013-03-11 15:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Turelus
Will you still offer a non bit-torrent option for people who's ISP's cap all P2P transfers?

*Edit* Yes they will

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2730329#post2730329
CCP Aporia wrote:
We are not using Pando Media Booster or anything like that. The launcher is using it's own mechanism, which is based on a publically available torrent client library. By default it will use HTTP as transport as well as BitTorrent, so you should be all good even when you cannot use any P2P traffic.
This is also one of the reasons why we want to bring it to a test server near you soon, so that we can gain more experience with how the mechanism would perform for people behind restrictive firewalls / ISPs.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Regat Kozovv
Alcothology
#6 - 2013-03-11 15:43:12 UTC
Totally fine with using Bittorrent, and helping seed is fine. As Aethlyn mentioned though, please leave some functionality open though so we can throttle/block connections if we're in an environment that requires it.
Wodensun
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-11 15:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Wodensun
When using bittorrent doesnt this mean that anybody with a wireshark install can capture all IPs currently connected to the cloud and use this in a more targetted attack against EvE players?

Not to mention the fact that a lot of ISPs implement restrictions when it comes to torrent trafic will you guys enable protocol encryption by default?

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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#8 - 2013-03-11 15:43:51 UTC
Never, ever had any trouble with the Mac launcher. Cept missing some stuff the windows users have (tools).

So where's CCP Casqade, I thought he was heading this in the past?
Tribal Solidarity
Garoun Investment Bank
#9 - 2013-03-11 15:44:05 UTC
So, while I agree with the issues of using HTTP/1.1, I disagree with the torrent protocol usage.

Tons of ISPs in the UK restrict torrent client usage, as do universities and businesses, making it much harder for people to patch.

And how long will you keep seeding the data on your servers before requiring people to download a full client?

Also, I personally have downloaded patches directly from the server and applied them after download, outside of waiting for the patcher to complete. I haven't done this for a while so it may not be possible but it was a great way of bypassing your servers being swamped on patch day by using mirrors.

And finally, can you guarantee the same throughput/speed of using bittorrent over HTTP/1.1? Or are we looking at ridiculously slow speeds?
SamuraiJack
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-03-11 15:44:58 UTC
Quote:
However, there are ways to limit this, and by default the new EVE Launcher will only make you share the data required for installing the client while you are downloading; once your download is complete you will not be distributing it to others, unless you explicitly enable this in the options – after all it might be useful for sharing the installation across your local network. We are also, by default, limiting the upload rate so that it should not affect your normal internet usage.


That alone makes CCP's implementation of this much better than most Torrent installers. Flooding out your upstream just throttles your connection as you cannot send commands due to data floods. Shame Blizzard never took that onboard.

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SamuraiJack
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-03-11 15:45:49 UTC
Oh and for the love of god. put the "Patchnotes" link back on the launcher. Its murder to find on the site.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#12 - 2013-03-11 15:45:53 UTC
I know nothing about torrents, and have never used them. Will that be an issue, or will this all be transparent to me?
Ive heard that many users are getting client freezes when a torrent is running while playing Eve. The solution is to not have a torrent running. But if it becomes a requirement....well, will it just be client freeze after freeze?

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Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-03-11 15:47:39 UTC
We pay you to provide the eve service.

You should be sending out the eve data from servers you pay for not stealing bandwidth off customers.
disgraceful.

Is ccp having funding issues ?
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#14 - 2013-03-11 15:48:19 UTC
SamuraiJack wrote:
Oh and for the love of god. put the "Patchnotes" link back on the launcher. Its murder to find on the site.

This! or better yet, LIST THE PATCH NOTES ON THE LAUNCHER LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME !!! Attention
(click a dev blog link and it's on the sidebar)

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#15 - 2013-03-11 15:49:02 UTC
Just a random idea, but why should upload stop the exact moment that a particular customer's Launcher has finished downloading? Why not continue uploading for a small period of time after that, as an automated setting, such as 90 minutes? Or if not as an automated setting, then as a user-configurable option?

I'd not want to have upload available all the time, but something like the duration of my download plus X minutes would be an option that I'd be happy to utilize.
CCP Aporia
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2013-03-11 15:49:39 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
Sounds interesting. I just hope you include your own torrent handling and don't use any abomination such as that dreaded Pando Media Booster. :)

Also, I'd suggest by default the launcher should ask on first start, whether it should use bittorrent connections or just classic HTTP, because at least in Germany, some ISPs (like universities or some mobile providers) don't like to see P2P traffic and will rightout block, slowdown or sanctionize it (e.g. by cutting your internet access if there're too high P2P Transfers). Always think of unaware/non-savy computer users/players.


We are not using Pando Media Booster or anything like that. The launcher is using it's own mechanism, which is based on a publically available torrent client library. By default it will use HTTP as transport as well as BitTorrent, so you should be all good even when you cannot use any P2P traffic.
This is also one of the reasons why we want to bring it to a test server near you soon, so that we can gain more experience with how the mechanism would perform for people behind restrictive firewalls / ISPs.

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Karl Mattar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-03-11 15:50:22 UTC
Is there any way you can set the launcher to launch multiple eve windows for those of us who run two (or more) accounts at the same time? Configurable with different settings for monitors?

I have two monitors. They are different sizes. It is quite the pain to start everything up because the settings don't hold over from session to session. Whichever session I closed last is how it all starts up again.

Otherwise, I have no issues with this proposal at all.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#18 - 2013-03-11 15:51:23 UTC
I never have had any reliability problems with the launcher. I guess my ISP know their stuff.

The issue I have with it is the slowness of the first phase (1/4) of the update where it calculates the patch to download. This is especially compounded on small patches e.g. the last Retribution 1.1.6 patch. Roughly 90% of the patching time was spent on calculating the patch then 5% downloading it and another 5% applying it.

If there's anything you can do about that I would appreciate it.

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Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#19 - 2013-03-11 15:52:08 UTC
Are you going to have back up protocols for the Torrent in cases where Torrent is not available?

Seems like most companies do have backups even if it's "slower".

Where I am.
Lili Lu
#20 - 2013-03-11 15:52:40 UTC
I'm not very techno proficient. But I have not had any problems with the launcher and patching. I did have problems with the client freezing. But in the 2nd most recent major patch it seemed to have fixed itself. Possibly either the eve patch or maybe the latest nvidia driver update. Don't know, just happy it's fixed.

As for bit torrent. Don't like this. I suspect it will mean I have to pay for some third party program just to update eve. Your launcher is doing fine by me. So please don't make use of another program mandatory.

If I'm not understanding all this then just ignore. But really I don't want to download and pay for another program just to patch and play eve. Thanks
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