EVE General Discussion

There are so many topics on Goons, Mittens, and the future survival or destruction of EVE that I'm truly loathe to add another one. But I see so many posts going back and forth on these issues that simply make no sense to me. I'm hoping to drudge up some intelligent, constructive clarifications from players who care. Which is a lofty goal, I know, but bear with me.

All of the arguments to follow are premised on the existence of The Sandbox. The Sandbox seems to be at the core of almost all arguments about the game, but in each case twisted to suit the needs of the argument presented. To me, the existence of The Sandbox means that no matter how you want to play the game, you can. For The Sandbox to truly exist, there can be no exceptions to this rule.

1. Mittens and the Goons.
There are no CCP created villains in this game. At the risk of using WoW examples, there is no Scourge, no Demons, no raid bosses. There is no force created by the Devs that unites the game in a common cause. And yet, there are the Goons. So reviled and despised are they that the posts they generate here are endless. But the situation as I see it is the equivalent of WoW players saying "Deathwing is ruining our game, ban him!". The number of players who will come to the forums and complain about the Goons soars daily, but ask even one of them to lift so much as a single finger against the Goons, and all you hear is silence. If this is the case, the Goons deserve to rule EVE. They're the only ones who are acting, doing, fighting.

Now, I hate the Goons. I hate seeing one corporation or alliance with so much power. I hate their policies, the things they say, and their general disposition. But they provide something in this game for players to stand against. For that, I respect them. Goons, step up the interdiction. Stir the masses. Coming here and saying "Goons are poopy heads!" accomplishes nothing. They feed on your tears. Stop crying, and put some effort into it. The Goons are organized, organize a resistance. The Goons have funding, put some money into it. The Apostle, if you hate the Goons, lead fleets against them. Yes, right now SOV mechanics and powerblocs are broken. CCP heard this one, and it’s on the list of fixes. Which makes this the PERFECT time to start preparing. I’ve starting this account with one purpose: getting into null and causing hell for the Goons. Do I have a high sec missioner for funding? You betcha. Did I make a weapon too? You betcha. Watch out Goons. When the time is right, I’m coming for you.

2. Goons in the CSM.
If you don't want Goons in the CSM, vote them out. The key word being VOTE. If getting the Goons out of the CSM isn't important enough for you to find candidates, help gather support for them, vote them in, etc, then it isn't important enough for you to come here whining on the forums hoping someone else will do it for you. The Goons are not a majority. Judging by the voting numbers from the last CSM, they're quite a small part of EVE. Find the rest, gather support.

3. Ganking.
There is not a single high sec player I've seen who wants suicide ganking to go away. Suicide ganking should stay in the game. The issue being raised isn't that suicide ganking shouldn't happen, it's that there should be consequences for the ganker. Right now, insurance covers everything, and the bounty system is broken. High sec players don't want you to stop ganking, they just want you to pay for it. Which is exactly as it should be, even according to the gankers. Gankers say, "no risk, no reward". With insurance payouts, there is no risk to the ganker, and yet they reap large rewards. Low sec status simply isn’t that big of a threat.
And even if it were, there is no mechanic for lots of players to fight back. Some say, “oh just go hop into a combat ship and come back for them”. “Oh, what’s that? You don’t have a single SP in combat skills? It’s okay, I’m sure it will still work out for you”. Fix the bounty system, and they can at least hire mercs.

4. High Sec.
If the Sandbox exists, and you can play the game however you want it, there should be a place in the game where you are safER from PvP, pirates, gankers, etc. There are people who want to play in the sandbox without PvP. High Security space should be, by its very definition, Highly Secure. This doesn't mean aggression is impossible, it doesn't mean the area is safe, it simply means it is Highly Secure. The one thing high sec players, null sec players, and pirates all agree on is that high sec shouldn't be completely safe. It should be safER.

This also means that high sec players should be able to earn a decent living there. Should null sec/low sec/wormholes be more profitable? Absolutely. But the "nerf high sec income" mentality won't get you anywhere. Everyone should have the opportunity to fund what they want to do, even if that means eventually getting rich in high sec.

I think they are a bunch of dudes who play a Video Game.

It is hard to attempt care less about the Drama.

yo i heard there are tears to drink.
where da tears at?

People in 0.0 like to PvP, but they also like to amass shiny things. Some people in 0.0 like to amass shiny things more than they like to PvP. Hence, why you have allies, with non intervention or non aggression pacts.

Not in every case, but in many, when the people IN CHARGE are getting their wallets fattened, they are less likely to shake up the status quo. This is why bottlenecking T2 production with Technetium was a BAD MOVE, since it is monopolized by superpower alliances who would rather cut off their left testicle than risk mutually beneficial agreements about not attacking each others moons.

I get it.. The Goons are Orcs!

At least im not alone in seeing that the biggest problem with eve is the way people are playing it.


i think what we need to do is get over the fear of losing ships, ships are nothing more than tools, but people fear losing ships because it affects there KB stats

i care little about Kill mails, i think i have one of the crappiest KB stats ever, i have never reported on any of my kills, never will ether.

I'm so deathwing right now

I hate to nitpick semantics, but I think this is an important distinction. There is no wrong way to play EVE (or there shouldn't be). That's the Sandbox. It's not the people who are playing EVE that are the problem, it's the people that are not playing EVE. Most of the things people complain about are things they have the tools to fix themselves. Not using those tools, and whining to CCP is saying, "I don't want to play this game, I want you to make it a different game." There is no reward for apathy, change comes from action. EVE is a wonderful, dynamic, player driven world. You are a player. Drive it.

This was actually not the point of my post. I think the Goons add something valuable to the game. They add something dispicable, detestable, dare I say villainous. For that I respect them, and in every way defend their existance. Will I do everything in my power to ensure their destruction? Absolutely. But they are not the enemy I'm trying to confront here. That enemy is apathy. It's not to say, "Goons are icky, we should squash them". It is rather to say, "If you want something to change, do something about it."

Lots of people say they hate Goons. Or gankers. Or Ice miners. So far, the Goons are the only ones acting on it. Goons hate ice miners, so they come out of null sec, buy up ganking ships, and kill ice miners. What do ice miners do? Watch d-scan? Fit a tank? Mine somewhere else? Nope, "CCP should make ganking impossible because I don't like it!". The tools are there. Use merc contracts, fund war decs, PvP alts, avoidance, tanking, survival.

It's not about Goons, or ice miners. It's about apathy. Less whining, more playing. Innovate, adapt.

can't help myself, the goons and das Mittani is one of the reasons why I still play EVE.

Be honest isn't it fantastic in an MMOG to have one hated group and their evil mastermind, which are players not NPCs