Skill Discussions

I can comprehend the issue with the "skillpoint wall" for you.
But that sight only causes the inexperience you still "stuck" in.

Of course it´s a "makes me game-quitting"-problem if the goal of your 4 pals and you is to mine togehter in maxed out hulks with maxed out orca-support. EvE is a sandbox, the way is goal. You never realy reach the finish line (and none realy will make 1st place).

My first thought after reading the inital post was "not that one again" (topic).
2nd thought was "Buy a time-machine and go back to 2003 and start paying your sub like some of us did".

On more serious thought the grass in 2003 wasnt more green then EvE is today.
Out of my experience EvE was by a LOT more inconvinient to play then nowadays.
Autopilot? Something you can dream about. Mining barges? Earning isk with mining? A balance between shipclasses (splash damage on torpedos was enough to pop frigs!). Anyone remember the "Bring your own minerals"-deals?
A rifter, throw-away-good of today, was like 1m a hull. My first thorax cost 12m.

Life in eve was hard. So it´s today - but it´s different. Low skillpoints but you know what to do and how to do it? There are plenty corps out there who accept new players with open arms. You can join a mining corp and participate in large mining gangs, for pvp there are plenty of options (from "clean" RvB-perma-war in highsec over lowsec piracy (or faction warfare) to nullsec entities) and wormhole-corps (there are a few corps out there who run the low-class-holes with drake-gangs).

No matter how many skillpoints you have, there will always be that "why didn´t i skill this one"-moments.

Keep your personal fun up.

As you don´t answer the question on what exactly you want to train for (1-1.5 years) before you can start to actually playing the game here a last note refering to pvp experience.

You want to fly a deimos in pvp? Buy a thorax, fit it like you would fit your deimos. Now buy the thorax and the modules 10 times. Fit them, use them, lose them. After you lost your 10th ship remember how much fun it was to lose those ships (and actually getting experience for the same price). A good thorax pilot anhilates a bad deimos-pilot every day.

TL;DR: HTFU

I agree that the SP system is broken!
But I don't recognize what Hefty describes. I have been around for some time now, and every now and then some noob (less then 4 years) comes by and shoots me down .

How is this possible? I mean I most likely have more SP then him, I think it would only be fair if, whenever someone initiate combat a SP check was made. The person with lower SP should get a x% miss chance depending on how big the difference in SP is...

It's only fair to us old timers!

This isn't the game for you.

There are two sides to this problem - like people have already hinted at. The first aspect is goal and the second is the journey.

If people see the goal as amassing skill points to get into the big ships without there being anything worth doing in between then yes, that's a huge problem. Some people might even see that there is fun stuff to do before they get the skill points to do the 'big' stuff. The character bazaar is the solution for those people. Yes, it's costly and as such not the 'best' solution. Is there a different and better solution to allow new people quickly get to that point? Maybe, by removing the prerequisite skills so that you could train titan (or whatever) right from the start. Well, they could but it'd just be compromising the 'feel' of a skill system. You know how to fly a titan but not a frigate ... what's wrong with you?

So the answer to this question:
- There is value to taking the time to train ... represented by skill points
- There is stuff you can do for fun while you attain your skill point goals, the character bazaar is an alternative for those that don't want to wait.


Forums, run for CSM. CCP does listen to the community. If you have an alternative solution and support that's the best route to success.



Yes - like I said before. No, you will never get a new character into the skill point heights of the older characters. But the skill point system also levels out. Put my character in an assault frigate against a 10m skill point character and there could be no discernible difference in the number of EFFECTIVE skill points. Sure, I could jump into a t3 cruiser, carrier, or something and have a lot more effective skill points. I'm just saying - once you pick a ship to fly you are leaving a LOT of skill points behind.

The only difference between a new player and an old player are options. You say that it takes too long to acquire some options and you might be absolutely correct. But I say there is also value in having those kinds of options. I've gone through the phase where there isn't anything really the 'need' for anything new to train. This, in my opinion is worse than having long term skill training options.

As a matter of fact, concerning pvp, you don't want to have too many skill points. Makes for more expensive clones and the "need" to fly more expensive shi(t)ps.

My PvP alt stopped training at 15m SP, and he doesn't even have perfect skills in anything. That's roughly 7 months of training though.

Three pages later and we have finally come to the post discussion.
Since the game has progressed with so many expansions the "SP wall" just gets bigger and bigger.
For new players to experience the great thing's in eve they need to make that wall smaller.
Then new players won't be so discouraged and quit.
Throw a dog a bone...

Well, that's sort of the thing - there really isn't a direction they "should" go. It's entirely dependent on what you want to do.

Also, I think a lot of people get hung up on flying a given ship or ship class as being something they want to do. New players will frequently say something like, "I want to fly a battleship," instead of, "I want to run level 4 missions," whereas older players generally recognize that ships are frequently-interchangeable tools for accomplishing whatever it is you actually want to do, and not, themselves, the thing that you do.

This is true... But that is an alt of yours. All the skill that you have acquired playing the game greatly magnifies the 1.5m SP.
This post is about the new players that don't know 99% of what you do sir.
Not to mention the fact that new players get scammed to shambles and don't get protected by CCP.

My point is this...

As the game progresses the "SP wall" keeps on getting bigger.
When you play a game you don't want to stick to one specific role and tunnel vision it to be good.
You want to experience multiple roles and see different sides of everything.
In eve you simply cannot do that.
Mining for new players is the worst thing I could imagine for them...
Sitting there mining with low skills when they are simply fueling the bigger players.
To be good at mining and actually breach the wall to be effective you need mining skills and refinery skills.
That's 2 totally different skill paths that makes the wall even bigger.
Now this is only an example... So say this new player gets sick of mining. Guess what?
You are stuck with mining since it would open up a third path where you have to now start training.
That makes the wall even bigger. You want to still train mining and refining to be good but now you want to pvp or run missions. That increase in roles makes the SP training 3x harder... You have to step back and see just how useless new players feel. Now this new player wanting to run mission has to train weapon skills, tanking skills,core skills and piloting skills. Each one of those paths makes the wall tremendously bigger.

I guess I should have explained my post better but it would have been the biggest wall of text ever.
I really hope that I am making sense.