Player Features and Ideas Discussion

First off getting the numbers straight a Neutron Blaster II uses

-0.8 Cap per sec / 0 Mag Stab
-0.9 Cap per sec / 1 Mag Stab
-1.0 Cap per sec / 2 Mag Stab
-1.1 Cap per sec / 3 Mag Stab

While a Heavy Pulse Laser II with a 50% Cap Bonus uses

-1.3 Cap per sec / 0 Heat Sink
-1.5 Cap per sec / 1 Heat Sink
-1.6 Cap per sec / 2 Heat Sink
-1.7 Cap per sec / 3 Heat Sink

So yeah huge difference, +50% in fact with a - 50% Cap reduction.


Same person who would put rails on a Brutix.

I've argued that nerfing Heavies was a mistaken solution instead fixing Beams and Rails. While Heavies are not in terrible shape LR Medium Turrets need some work.

This chart argues otherwise

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/64183/1/BCUse.jpg

The harbinger was the least used tier 2 battlecruiser. The myrmidon was more useful, the harbinger did nothing that other ships didn't do better and that is still the case. It is meh, it doesn't suck, its just really really meh.

Is it fast? No. is it extra tanky? No. is it a wtfdps machine? No. Does it have lots of utility? No. Does it have above average range? Sure.
Have you ever seen that exploited with success? probably not that often.

The harbinger is the definition of mediocre. Throw a medium neut on it and it won't be able to fight back , get in an in your face brawl and it will just plain be out brawled, if your being kited just warp away or move up to it because its Sloooooooow.

You ignored every other reason I listed for why the harbinger is underused. The harbinger is straight up inferior to the hurricane. The harby is worse as a fleet ship and the myrm is a better solo ship than it.

Asking for a 3rd bonus, which would throw balance out the window, is not a good way to go.

All T1 ships have 2 bonuses which should be balanced against the ship they are on as well as other ships in their class and role. That system works.

A more logical idea would have been to ask for a cap recharge bonus instead, or something similar. But that would be of no help to fits that rely on cap boosters to keep running, while a cap need reduction does help in this field.

Lasers, like every other weapon system, have their own set of benefits and weaknesses.

Lasers have massive optimal, allowing for much more 'applied dps' when. compared to say projectiles which are almost always working in damage mitigating falloff.
It also does not require reloading, unless your using faction or T2 ammo.
I mean come on, a Zealot with Scorch M will easily have a 30km+ optimal range. Can any other weapon say the same?

All in all: Bonuses are for flavour, they should not make or break a ship.

I hope that once all the ships are rebalanced, they will be able to rebalance weapons and other modules.

I have fixed your numbers to reflect the actual weapons themselves, not the use on a ship with a 50% capacitor bonus to them.
This is the problem the Op is talking about.
Lasers use more than tripple the Cap of Blasters. This is because originally they were WTFOMGBBQ DPS. This Dps has since been significantly downpowered, yet the capacitor useage has been left the same.
The 50% cap use bonus is not a 'bonus'. It is a crutch left in place to deal with legacy stats on lasers which no longer serve a purpose. Without the 50% cap use, Lasers are virtually unusable on most Amarr ships, so people fit projectiles, or on the Prophecy they fit missiles. I haven't seen a single serious new prophecy fit suggesting using Lasers, it's all projectiles or missiles. Because its simply not sustainable as a laser boat without a cap use bonus. And that is bad.

I think an important part of what everyone seems to be forgetting is that lasers..

...have instant ammo switching and have literally unlimited ammo unless you're using T2/faction crystals which still take damage pretty slowly.

I wish my projectile weapons and my missile bays (I fly Minmatar, so naturally I have both) could change ammo half as fast as lasers can change crystals.

No, really. You can fire an awful lot of times with those faction/T2 crystals before they break. Crystals take up nearly no space in the cargo, compared to the amount of ammo you'd need to make the same number of shots with any other gun. Lasers have a lot of benefits, but they're balanced by drawbacks and you're either failing or refusing to see the benefits because all you're interested in are the drawbacks.

Regarding the "make lasers take less cap and remove the cap bonus", I'm not going to touch that specifically but I do want to point out that some Amarr ships don't get a cap bonus to lasers, instead getting RoF and damage bonuses, or range and damage, or tracking and damage. The argument could possibly be made that cap-bonused ships are intended to more easily allow for active armor tanking as opposed to the ships without the cap bonus being intended mainly for passive armor tanking.

That sure is helpful when I am watching a movie bashing a pos or running level 4's.

I am not for making lasers use less cap naturally, I just think the harbinger needs another ace up its sleeve other than it can do 450dps past 20km.

None of those ships need a different bonus, the harbinger is at a great disadvantage being such a cap whore and needs that cap bonus.

Having two bonuses shouldn't be an arbitrary rule because not all bonuses are created equal.

IE Active rep bonus vs resist bonus

ROF bonus vs true damage bonus

Tracking bonus vs range

So your saying that the harbinger's guns should use more cap than a microwarp drive because 3 bonuses would make it look different from the other ships?