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Tribal Council Meeting

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Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#21 - 2013-02-17 00:32:13 UTC
For more information on why not to mess around with CONCORD: see Jita 4-4 part II: they can pull our plugs any time they want...
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2013-02-17 16:08:04 UTC
I have no problems with clones. They already exist in the story and if you kill a capsuleer, you expect them to clone. That's much different than declaring that there is an entire delegation on a ship, making no effort to portray that there might be something different going on, and then after the fact saying "Well, they weren't really there the entire time! Fooled you!"

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#23 - 2013-02-17 16:48:12 UTC
Ah, I think you misunderstand. The idea is that the delegation would be using decoys during the event. Not that the decoys were made up after the fact. Thus, there would still be a chance that they could be destroyed (especially if some nefarious criminal factions were able to "acquire" intel on which ship was the real deal). I don't think anyone's saying that you should 'inventively' retcon bad events to suit your story (bard's tale style), but, rather, that the event could have been planned to avoid the possibility of death via methods other than godmode-ing.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#24 - 2013-02-17 22:00:47 UTC
Faulx wrote:
Ah, I think you misunderstand. The idea is that the delegation would be using decoys during the event. Not that the decoys were made up after the fact. Thus, there would still be a chance that they could be destroyed (especially if some nefarious criminal factions were able to "acquire" intel on which ship was the real deal). I don't think anyone's saying that you should 'inventively' retcon bad events to suit your story (bard's tale style), but, rather, that the event could have been planned to avoid the possibility of death via methods other than godmode-ing.


The problem is the lack of IG acqusition means for that information.

Either the Devs claim the information is secure, in which case, it's god moding because you can never work out where they are.
Or the information leaks to selected parties, in which case those parties win, because they have the information. Which is another form of god moding as they are being given the victory by the Devs selectively handing out information.
Or the Devs make the decoy public, in which case.... everyone knows about the decoy and you might as well have not had a decoy to start with.

There is no 'spy/hacker/bribery/intel' system we can use against NPC's built into the game.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#25 - 2013-02-18 02:11:49 UTC
Well, let's see... the QA module grants the TTI 8 mil EHP right? So a fleet of 16 ships undocks each with a reasonably easy to obtain (for an empire) 500k EHP. The delegates are on board one of them... Even if you know exactly where the fleet is going to be, do you have the assets to guarantee their deaths? You have about as much of a chance as with the QA module (maybe slightly better)... only now the dev has to fly 16 * 7 = 112 ships... hard to do solo without some tools to help keep things together. That's all I'm saying: the LE team could use some storytelling tools. *is surprised so few people seem to agree*
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#26 - 2013-02-18 16:45:36 UTC
Henry Montclaire wrote:
Esan Vartesa wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
I will fight to my dying breath to prevent a bait-and-switch Body Double Shocking Swerve. It's terrible writing and cheapens the story far more, in my opinion, than introducing a Plot Shield for some NPCs to allow them to live. That said, I'm pretty firmly against doing either of them from this point forward, but if the options are one or the other, Plot Shield will win for me every day of the week.


Fine, so we don't like the bait-and-switch plot device. That's cool, I'm certainly not going to defend it.

But are we seriously going to try to argue that "a witch did it" is preferable?

Cause that's what you did. They're invulnerable... because CONCORD did it.


Get over it. This was already addressed, multiple times. The devs are not planning to use literal plot armor again, and will instead be creating contingency plans for if an important NPC is targeted by a gank. CCP Falcon has already agreed with you, you can let it rest now.

Shooting wrecks is bad.


They have addressed it? Where, I cant belive it, Falcon and/or Etenere have said they were wrong. Please send me a link. Im to lazy to search Big smile. People which link it to me get a nice thumbs up.

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer
turmajin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-02-28 23:27:30 UTC
To be honest i havent really paid any attention to Live Events,but this story tickeled my interest.After reading all the posts here and watching a vid of the event.I do feel that the GANK should have been posible.Make it very hard and risky ,but posible,There should be nothing in EVE that is totally invunrable imo.I also think Live Events should be expanded,and players allowed to take part in operations for an empire against another empire or pirate fractions to achive specfic goals ,like resucing slaves for the Republic ,reward status increase for Minmater and Gellente and LPs ,loss for Amarr and Caldai,and the same for operations aginst the pirate factions.and vice versa if you help the pirate factions.I think if CCP starts to reward players for taking part in Live Events it will grow ,and become a big part of the game adding yes another theame parkish activity ,but that can be balanced by adding something like the RING MINING idea allowing for more PvP oppotunities ,as its intended to be for small to large fleet operations or even seeding a few tech or other moon mineral roids in belts ,so more players mine and can be ganked ,as it again becomes worth it .Though of course yeilds would have to be significantly higher in low and null,and miserly in high.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#28 - 2013-03-01 01:56:59 UTC
If lore was truly followed then a gank should have been possible. After all, who was it who blew up the CONCORD station in Yulai during an attack that broke who knows how many signed CONCORD treaties?

And yet just a few years later here's CONCORD happily defending the Tribal Delegates like nothing ever happened.

Cops protecting known cop killers.

Sorry, but my suspension of disbelief just went out the window. It would have been far more believable to have CONCORD suddenly go on a doughnut break ten seconds before the gankers showed up. A nice little dose of payback would have been quite poetic, I think.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Derdrom Utida
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-03-01 03:08:20 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
If lore was truly followed then a gank should have been possible. After all, who was it who blew up the CONCORD station in Yulai during an attack that broke who knows how many signed CONCORD treaties?

And yet just a few years later here's CONCORD happily defending the Tribal Delegates like nothing ever happened.

Cops protecting known cop killers.

Sorry, but my suspension of disbelief just went out the window. It would have been far more believable to have CONCORD suddenly go on a doughnut break ten seconds before the gankers showed up. A nice little dose of payback would have been quite poetic, I think.


I thought turning a blind eye wouldn't be possible due to CONCORD being forced in line with the original, Jovian-minded directive? THANATOS cut it extremely close, but they bent the directive in order to attempt to keep the Templar-tech'd soldiers in line, IIRC.

Wilfully turning a blind-eye toward the Elders and leaving them unprotected would be against CONCORD directive, and thus out of their control.

Also, I believe the main reason why the Elder fleet was able to take out the Yulai station antennae was because the CONCORD fleet fired first, leaving their ships not able to utilize the Jovian power of their ships?
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