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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Buff Spike, Tremor, Aurora

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Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-27 18:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Well, there is still this often-overlooked nasty little rig called "ionic field projector" that is extremely cheap, costs only 50 calibration and increases your targeting range by 25% (I love them so much).
And yes, I agree that the tracking nerf is way too hard on those ammos.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Whitehound
#22 - 2013-02-27 18:17:33 UTC
Varesk wrote:
I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-02-27 18:17:48 UTC
Varesk wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script.

When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance.



I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

Typical rail fit Rokh locks to about 150 km and with spike has a range of 224 km at 315 dps.
CN Iridium hits to 149 km and does the same DPS without the tracking penalty.

This Rokh, mind you, has a signal amplifier fit.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Col Arran
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-02-27 18:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think?


What is this....I don't even....You do realize that any long range ammo can hit out further than the ships locking range right? That's its entire function, extreme range. Are you implying we nerf the range of an ammo type because you need a sensor booster to reach its full range?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-02-27 18:22:42 UTC
You don't need great tracking at long range.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-02-27 18:26:26 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
You don't need great tracking at long range.

Try using the DPS graph function in EFT and see how much of a difference it actually makes.
With any transversal at all, even at 150 km range, DPS drops quite dramatically, both with target MWD on and off.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Whitehound
#27 - 2013-02-27 18:27:10 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think?


What is this....I don't even....

Yes, you do not even comprehend. The "EVE Way" to enter into a discussion...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-02-27 18:30:26 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think?


What is this....I don't even....

Yes, you do not even comprehend. The "EVE Way" to enter into a discussion...


Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-02-27 18:30:49 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
You don't need great tracking at long range.


Maybe not with the classic battleship size sniper weapons against battleships sized targets.
But with the tiericide, CCP was trying to make all ships and all weapons viable, that includes small and medium long range weapons as well.
A beam punisher for example may be awesome on paper with its 24 + 3 km range, but with Aurora, the movement of your own ship ruins most of the dps even if the enemy is standing still.
(beam punishers are still great, just not with Aurora)

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Whitehound
#30 - 2013-02-27 18:36:40 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

The problem is that it should not be a problem when used in its vanilla form and not require the use of rigs or implants to make it work. It is only more evidence for it being of little use, don't you think?


What is this....I don't even....

Yes, you do not even comprehend. The "EVE Way" to enter into a discussion...


Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out.

Perhaps you have a one meter meat banana in your pants and consider yourself a winner in all situations of life, but why should I care? Do you have anything to contribute that is on topic?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-02-27 18:40:15 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out.

Perhaps you have a one meter meat banana in your pants and consider yourself a winner in all situations of life, but why should I care? Do you have anything to contribute that is on topic?


I did contribute, again, read the whole post.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-02-27 18:41:58 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script.

When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance.



I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.

Typical rail fit Rokh locks to about 150 km and with spike has a range of 224 km at 315 dps.
CN Iridium hits to 149 km and does the same DPS without the tracking penalty.

This Rokh, mind you, has a signal amplifier fit.


Since you are trying to hit out at 224kms, you would need to do something to your fit. Like remove a tank mod.

Having a full tank and hitting out that far is sorta OP.
Col Arran
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-02-27 18:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
You don't need great tracking at long range.


Maybe not with the classic battleship size sniper weapons against battleships sized targets.
But with the tiericide, CCP was trying to make all ships and all weapons viable, that includes small and medium long range weapons as well.
A beam punisher for example may be awesome on paper with its 24 + 3 km range, but with Aurora, the movement of your own ship ruins most of the dps even if the enemy is standing still.
(beam punishers are still great, just not with Aurora)


Well maybe if you're doing solo work beam punishers with Aurora are not that great. But if you have just 1 friend webbing them Auroras usefulness is greatly increased.

EVE is about tradeoffs and in this case you use aurora and tradeoff the ease of using an ammo type like gleam at really close range but ridiculously good tracking, for the requirement of a webber when using Aurora.

You also don't need to keep up your transversal at that range against most targets. If you're up against any ship thats Pulse Rocket AC or Blaster fitted they won't be able to hit you since you have the range advantage on them. My recommendation would be to use keep at range or try to match their transversal to keep your tracking speed down.
Whitehound
#34 - 2013-02-27 18:55:53 UTC
Col Arran wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out.

Perhaps you have a one meter meat banana in your pants and consider yourself a winner in all situations of life, but why should I care? Do you have anything to contribute that is on topic?


I did contribute, again, read the whole post.

Ah, you edited it and added something on the topic. Roll

My point still is that the extreme range of the Spike ammo makes it of little use. What supports this is that one cannot make use of its range by simply loading the ammo. And one can achieve its range by other means, i.e. through the use of modules.

If you disagree then perhaps explain to me how something is of a great use when it first requires additional modules for it be of use. Can you do this?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#35 - 2013-02-27 18:57:58 UTC
Funny...I was sure James Amril-Kesh knew where the Features and Ideas sub-forum was.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-02-27 18:58:41 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Funny...I was sure James Amril-Kesh knew where the Features and Ideas sub-forum was.

Do people even look there anymore?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-02-27 19:01:43 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Col Arran wrote:
Perhaps you should quote the full post and not just the part you picked out.

Perhaps you have a one meter meat banana in your pants and consider yourself a winner in all situations of life, but why should I care? Do you have anything to contribute that is on topic?


I did contribute, again, read the whole post.

Ah, you edited it and added something on the topic. Roll

My point still is that the extreme range of the Spike ammo makes it of little use. What supports this is that one cannot make use of its range by simply loading the ammo. And one can achieve its range by other means, i.e. through the use of modules.

If you disagree then perhaps explain to me how something is of a great use when it first requires additional modules for it be of use. Can you do this?


If you are shooting stuff at 250kms, either you will be facing ships that cannot lock or shoot that far. Your midslots/lowslots would have to range/tracking and no tank. That is the trade off you have to make.



ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#38 - 2013-02-27 19:09:21 UTC
Thread moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Whitehound
#39 - 2013-02-27 19:12:46 UTC
Varesk wrote:
If you are shooting stuff at 250kms, either you will be facing ships that cannot lock or shoot that far. Your midslots/lowslots would have to range/tracking and no tank. That is the trade off you have to make.

It is not an explanation for a great use, because it can be achieved through other means.

It is a use, but a bad one in my opinion, because at such ranges does one deal only very little damage and nobody will try to fly 250km to get to you when one can bounce and warp in closer to you or just use a cloaked ship for that. If the ammo was any good then we had people asking for 300km, 500km ranges and more.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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