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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Buff Spike, Tremor, Aurora

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-02-27 16:34:03 UTC
Seriously, -75% tracking makes Spike, Tremor, and Aurora ammo types terrible for pretty much any application, and I'm fairly sure it's because of this these ammo types are never used.

I'd go so far as to say maybe -40% would be better and would help people to actually start using these ammo types.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Christopher AET
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-27 16:45:48 UTC
Seconded

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
Obvious Cyno
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-27 17:03:57 UTC
Christopher AET wrote:
Seconded


This
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-27 17:07:00 UTC
Instead of nerfing heavy missiles CCP had to buff T2 long range ammo
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-02-27 17:09:21 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
Instead of nerfing heavy missiles CCP had to buff T2 long range ammo

Well no, heavy missiles did still need to be nerfed. But tracking is what's really preventing people from using the ammo even after heavy missiles were nerfed. Even if the ammo was buffed like I propose, HMs would still have been overpowered.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2013-02-27 17:17:12 UTC
Spike I think its going to be a hard one to balance properly - on small and medium railguns it badly badly needs a damage increase (and other tweaks) but if you scale small to large spike uniformly you end up with for instance railguns + spike on the rokh potentially becoming overly powerful.
Whitehound
#7 - 2013-02-27 17:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
There is another problem with Spike.

For example, using Spike L with 425mm Railgun IIs on a Megathron goes out to 130km (+30km fall-off) without any use of tracking enhancers and computers, while the ship itself only has got a locking range of 90km. On a Rokh does it become more obvious, where the optimal lies at 194km while the ship can only lock as far as 113km.

On a Catalyst with 150mm Railgun IIs is it not much different and the optimal is at 56km (+11km for fall-off) while the ship's locking range is only 41km. A Cormorant moves the optimal out to 73km with a locking range of 45km.

The ammo has far more range than it is useful.

One can still use Spike with the smaller turrets and to be within a ship's maximum locking range, but why use it when a larger turret type with a more powerful ammo type achieves similar ranges?!

Edit:
This should be in Features & Ideas Discussion...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-27 17:26:12 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
There is another problem with Spike.

For example, using Spike L with 425mm Railgun IIs on a Megathron goes out to 130km (+30km fall-off) without any use of tracking enhancers and computers, while the ship itself only has got a locking range of 90km. On a Rokh does it become more obvious, where the optimal lies at 194km while the ship can only lock as far as 113km.

On a Catalyst with 150mm Railgun IIs is it not much different and the optimal is at 56km (+11km for fall-off) while the ship's locking range is only 41km. A Cormorant moves the optimal out to 73km with a locking range of 45km.

The ammo has far more range than it is useful.

One can still use Spike with the smaller turrets and to be within a ship's maximum locking range, but why use it when a larger turret type with a more powerful ammo type achieves similar ranges?!


Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits".

Dodixie > Hek
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-02-27 17:27:08 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
There is another problem with Spike.

For example, using Spike L with 425mm Railgun IIs on a Megathron goes out to 130km (+30km fall-off) without any use of tracking enhancers and computers, while the ship itself only has got a locking range of 90km. On a Rokh does it become more obvious, where the optimal lies at 194km while the ship can only lock as far as 113km.

On a Catalyst with 150mm Railgun IIs is it not much different and the optimal is at 56km (+11km for fall-off) while the ship's locking range is only 41km. A Cormorant moves the optimal out to 73km with a locking range of 45km.

The ammo has far more range than it is useful.

One can still use Spike with the smaller turrets and to be within a ship's maximum locking range, but why use it when a larger turret type with a more powerful ammo type achieves similar ranges?!

You know there are these things called sensor boosters...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Whitehound
#10 - 2013-02-27 17:33:59 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits".

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You know there are these things called sensor boosters...


Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-02-27 17:37:07 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits".

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You know there are these things called sensor boosters...


Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too.

Tracking computers don't really make up for a 75% malus.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#12 - 2013-02-27 17:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Unsuccessful At Everything
Whitehound wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits".

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You know there are these things called sensor boosters...


Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too.


Those do not do anything to lock range...unless you meant to say Signal Amplifiers....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Whitehound
#13 - 2013-02-27 17:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Because if you fit a sensor booster and lockrange script you can hit at these ranges. These fits are called "sniper fits".

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You know there are these things called sensor boosters...


Sensor boosters are not really an argument when one can fit tracking computers and enhancers, too.

Tracking computers don't really make up for a 75% malus.

Exactly.

I was not saying that I did not know how to extend a ship's locking range or how to make Spike work. It simply is not useful in the sense of "not being of much use" or "being impractical".

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-02-27 17:47:43 UTC
I agree, Spike is useless unless you're fighting at hideously long ranges. Dat tracking penality.

Rails have ****** tracking anyway, normally.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-02-27 17:47:51 UTC
Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-02-27 17:49:28 UTC
It's as if I didn't just say that that doesn't make up for how ******* terrible a 75% penalty makes it.
You already have to fit at least one sensor booster on most ships to make these ammos useful at all.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Whitehound
#17 - 2013-02-27 17:54:54 UTC
Varesk wrote:
Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script.

When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-02-27 18:01:18 UTC
I love my 50km thrasher with 1k volley dmg ...
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-27 18:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Varesk
Whitehound wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Use a Tracking Computer II with a Tracking script.

When it becomes necessary to fit a tracking computer with a tracking script and a sensor booster with a range script in order to make an ammo type work then it hardly gets more obvious: the trade-off between range and tracking of the Spike ammo is out of balance.



I am sure there are Implants and Low slot mods that can help with your problem.
Ginger Barbarella
#20 - 2013-02-27 18:04:36 UTC
I used to use Aurora regularly in Amarr missions, even with the lower DPS. But since NPCs have gone disrupt/tracking crazy, it's become virtually useless. Really don't even use Beams much anymore at all with the current state of OP NPCs.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
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