Ships & Modules

Come on, if you are leaving this game because they changed one class wich indeed required rebalancing, may be this game is not for you.

There are many other ships and fittings you can try, and you don´t need 7 billion SP to counter those changes.

A game so complex like this will always bee seeing changes and rebalancing, just like real life the best we can do is to adapt.

A frightening number of people apparently don't understand how active hardeners worked pre-patch. So I'll start off by explaining as clearly and simply as possible, using small words:

Pre-patch, active hardeners (both shield and armor) provided a small bonus when inactive, and a large bonus when active. The inactive base bonus was 1%; the active was 55% for T2 hardeners. The armor and shield compensation skills increased the passive bonus, but not the active bonus. With max skills, a hardener would provide a 15% bonus when inactive, and a 55% bonus when active. Note that the active bonus was not affected by the compensation skill.

Post-patch, active hardeners provide a large bonus when active. The active bonus is 55% for T2 hardeners. Note that the active bonus remains identical.

In comparison, a passive T2 hardener (both shield and armor) provides a base 37.5% resistance with no skills, and 46% with max skills.

To summarize, with max skills:

Active Hardener (on): 55% -> 55%
Active Hardener (off): 15% -> 0%
Passive Hardener: 46% -> 46%

Numbers are: Pre-Patch -> Post-Patch

The only change has been to the bonus provided by active hardeners when turned off. Since active hardeners provided a paltry 15% bonus even with max skills, there was no conceivable situation where a player would intentionally turn off an hardener while under fire.

The passive bonus came into play in two situations:

Under heavy cap pressure, a ship might not have sufficient cap to power the active hardeners. A subcap with no capacitor is generally a dead subcap. All competent capital pilots carry a set of passive hardeners for refitting; a capital that is neuted dry and does not have any support will not be saved by an extra 15% of resistance. So in cap warfare, the passive bonus was of marginal utility.

In high-lag situations, a pilot may not be able to turn on his hardeners. High-lag situations are predictable; only an idiot jumped into Asakai without expecting massive lag. Capitals carry passive hardeners in large part to be able to gracefully deal with high-lag situations.

(As an aside, shield capitals aren't considered inferior because they can't fit an EANM, but because of path-dependence and issues with the hulls themselves. The Chimera needs a CPU boost; the Hel needs a useful bonus; the Phoenix and Leviathan will be fine once capital missiles can no longer be speed-tanked by capitals; the Nag should pick a weapons platform and stick with it. Maybe some sort of slave-equivalent wouldn't hurt. There is one questionable armor capital -- the Thanatos; there are several sub-par shield capitals.)

So the passive bonus was largely irrelevant, and players know how to fit for the rare situations where active hardeners may be a liability.

The compensation skills only applied to the passive bonus. The passive bonus had nothing to do with the active bonus. The shield compensation skill was worthless for most pilots before the patch, and it is worthless pilots now. Nothing has changed.

Active hardners originally never had passive resists.
We all survived.

But the choice ccp speaks about when fitting would be nice.
Now where do I get my omni passive shield tank module choice.

Yes armor dudes can get an active, but given armor tankers ability to fit cap boosters more freely it should probably have a significant cap consumption to give active resists armor tankers the same vulnerability to neuting that active resist shield tankers have.

If you think your armor compensation skills are wasted, you definitely deserve not get your SP back.

Seems like the vast majority, armor or shield tankers, are against this... why are they doing this again? because the programming is to hard and the explanation to difficult?

Even then. The drake handle lvl 3 just fine. I need to try again for lvl 4 without doing silly misstakes but I am pretty sure it will still be possible if you do not mind the long time it takes.

I'm pretty sure the Sp will be reimbursed as unallocated SP like anything else they've taken away (i.e. learning skills) The SP simply doesn't vanish.

2ndly I'm more curious as to how this would improve the health of the overall game... seems like it will just improve cap warfare and limit choices to either full active (and hope to run it) or full passive, which is pretty much already being done daily.

I've been back 3 weeks after a very long break from eve (partly because of continued nerfing to Caldari (Shield/Long range missile boats)

Come back to even more facking nerfs. Everything trained since creating my Caldari 100km+ Missile shield tanking char in 2006 is becoming more and more irrelevant.

Missiles & shield boats were always second to Armour tanking with turrets and being the sort of person to go with the underdog I went the way of Missiles & Shield boats.

Since 2006 my heavy launchers for example, the range has dropped from 90km to 64km, damage has been nerfed, the Drake nerfed and looses a launcher slot amongst the other nerfs and to top it off, my shield skills which I spent "TIME" on, increased passive resists on harderners now also become nerfed into oblivion.

Must admit, coming back after the break, getting into null sec to do a spot of ratting and struggling to kill one lone Guristas Battleship with 700k bounty in a Tengu fitted with T2 gear was absolutely depressing to say the least. (never mind the perma-ecm)

Go ahead CCP, you may aswell remove everything that makes out races different. Wipe all chars, give us bog standard shield and armour ships & modules which are the same no matter what your race is. Make turrets and missile equipment exactly the same stat wise but with different graphics and save us all the god damn time and money waisted training in such a specific way. Doing it merely to neutralise blobdonut fleets.

When you make such changes as removing a stat which some of us specifically trained for then some kind of reimbursement should be granted.

STOP FCKING NERFING UNIQUENESS! I was proud to be Caldari years ago and now I have to question... who am I now ?

I don't think people realize that most armor ships that are shield fit are also using Tengu boosts for resists. This is how out of whack OGB is.