EVE General Discussion

Do you do any production, in either high sec or null sec?

If you do production in high sec, how much do you have to import from null to do that production?

If you do it in null sec, how much do you pay to import what you need to null in order to produce, and can you produce for significantly less then what you can buy it from jita for?

I feel that I outlined the problem pretty simply in post #458 if you're not sure what it really is.

Regional moongoo
Faction goods
Naval goods
officer modules
datacores/FW goods
Implants/mission LP-derived goods
T3 components and modules
highend minerals
nullsec surplus
highsec surplus

off the top of my head, I'm sure there's lots more

Not accurate?

That's a load of a bullshit and quite frankly I resent the idea that I would misrepresent myself by lieing.


You obviously do not, nor have you ever, done a bit of manufacturing in null sec. So I thank you for putting in your 2 cents on something you don't know **** about.

You are correct.

I apologize.

Doesn't excuse the repsonce.

CCP did not create Jita.

Natsett Amuinn: Let me try that again.
I agree with your facts, but I disagree with the conclusions you draw from them.

If Jita did not exist we would need to create it all over again, and we would, because having a main trade hub is too useful for us to do without it. Given a main trade hub, manufacturing close to that hub has major advantages, to the point where if costs close to that hub are artificially raised to the point that manufacturing far from the hub has serious profit advantages the hub itself will move to where the costs are lower (I haven't been to Shanghai, but I'd wager good money that you can find things in the markets there that are difficult to find in New York, and flat impossible to find in Houston).

One of the key elements in the industrial equation is "risk of loss", which is why you don't hear about Ford building new factories in northern Africa, despite the availability of cheap land and labor and convenient access to global markets.

If that's the price support level you want that's a pretty big number, probably game breaking for people living in hi-sec. One percent is a lot.

I think there are many valid points being made in this thread.

1) 5000 solar systems and 50,000 pilots on, that's 10 per. It would take forever to move a significant amount of goods if buying and selling was done without trade hubs. Trade hubs are player created because people go to buy where they know they can get anything, and people go to sell where they know there are buyers. There will always be trade hubs.

2) With jump freighters, it is super simple to get things to and from the trade hubs. It then just becomes a matter of volume the freighter can hold to fuel costs. When I lived in shallow 0.0, one JF jump from a trade hub, I could anything I wanted, delivered from Jita to my null station, for 200 isk an m3. In deep 0.0, when I lived there, it was more like 500 ISK an m3. So skill books or implants or other really small things were no problem. Moving something like a control tower or ships was obviously more expensive.

Null prices for the small items with high volume, will always be similar to high sec trade hub prices. If there was month to be made buying in high, shipping to null, and reselling... well... people would do it to teh point that the profit was squeezed out of it. In null, you can make money on the larger items, or if you have lots and lots of orders up for things that sell in low quantty.

3) I remember two major impediments to null industry. One cloaky shutting down all mining and transportation in a system and the lack of trit combined with the cost of shipping it in. I don't think it would be a huge burden to make a cloaky guy click the module, once every.. say... hour, to keep his ship cloaked. I think it would even be okay to up the veld yield of null rocks by... oh... 400%.

I'd love to see high sec have th base rocks (example: veld). Have low sec have the second tier (compressed) and have those net 2x the high sec base. Then have null have the top tier rocks (dense) that produced 4x the yield of the base. This would apply only to the high sec rocks, of course. So, there would not be dense ABC... just Veld, scord, plag, etc.

Hmm, Slashers were averaging 100k ISK until ~August, and now are trading at around 500k ISK/unit.

It seems that CCP disagrees with you.

In addition, where in the world are you getting this idea that the HS nerfs that are needed to provide space for Nullsec industry to have any chance of being competitive would result in doubled prices?

Eat = Earn Money. Since the primary markets will always be in HS (and I don't have a problem with that, because I cannot think of a way for it to be otherwise), and a single industrialist can easily over-saturate local demand in most areas of Null, that means being able to export to HS at a competitive price.



So prove that doubling (though again, I have no earthly idea where you're getting that idea from) prices puts things past that supposed limit.


Like what? One day they cost ~100k ISK worth of materials to produce, the next day ~500k ISK worth. And citation needed on there being "damage done."



Only if you ignore most of the economic costs associated with production in Nullsec (i.e. Risk, Transport, etc).

And citation needed on how balancing industry in Nullsec and HS so that HS is not strictly better* in all comparable situations than Nullsec is "absurd."

*What would you say about a ship that was better in all respects to its competition?
a) Broken, fix it.
b) Broken, but only nerf it so that it's stats are equivalent to its competition while it is still far easier to use and cheaper.
c) Not broken.

In this thread, you've been hovering between answers b and c.

You actually can, but it's really hard to get right, so the easiest way to do it is by trial and error (as in change the relative costs until you have the balance of production locations that you're aiming for. That differential is the value of that safety).

The problem in this thread is that Aren keeps alternatively claiming that you can compete with effectively 0 cost for HS's advantages(despite all evidence to the contrary), and claiming that fixing the massive imbalance would somehow implode the economy (with no evidence to support his claim).

If we ignore the fact that Nullsec produces minerals in fixed proportions, the mining income difference between HS and Nullsec is the value placed on the difference in safety by the participants.

Economists do something very similar with calculating the value of a Human life IRL.