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Why do we be reasonable....Mining barges
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Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#1 - 2013-02-24 18:40:33 UTC
the EHP on a mining barge or exhumer is stupid low. In some cases regardless of what you do you cant tank them against an attack. Why is this? why would someone design a ship that moves at a snails pace, participates in a stationary task so affectingly the most likely target and oh By the way has 0 Offensive ability. ... as a benefit of all of that... lets make them ridiculously easy to kill too...


Anyone notice how stupid that is? I mean seriously I'm not a rocket scientist but if I made a ship that was super slow and no aggressive ability the Defense would take a pretty big step forward as the Major design option... Considering Exhumers cost similar to Battleships why not give them respective ehps?

just an idea for being reasonable....
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-24 18:53:42 UTC
Frost 3 wrote:
the EHP on a mining barge or exhumer is stupid low. In some cases regardless of what you do you cant tank them against an attack. Why is this? why would someone design a ship that moves at a snails pace, participates in a stationary task so affectingly the most likely target and oh By the way has 0 Offensive ability. ... as a benefit of all of that... lets make them ridiculously easy to kill too...


Anyone notice how stupid that is? I mean seriously I'm not a rocket scientist but if I made a ship that was super slow and no aggressive ability the Defense would take a pretty big step forward as the Major design option... Considering Exhumers cost similar to Battleships why not give them respective ehps?

just an idea for being reasonable....


There are 2 mining barges that can have bs like tank, Procurer and Skiff. Also did you forget that they can use drones, even the offensive ones.
Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#3 - 2013-02-24 19:05:35 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:
the EHP on a mining barge or exhumer is stupid low. In some cases regardless of what you do you cant tank them against an attack. Why is this? why would someone design a ship that moves at a snails pace, participates in a stationary task so affectingly the most likely target and oh By the way has 0 Offensive ability. ... as a benefit of all of that... lets make them ridiculously easy to kill too...


Anyone notice how stupid that is? I mean seriously I'm not a rocket scientist but if I made a ship that was super slow and no aggressive ability the Defense would take a pretty big step forward as the Major design option... Considering Exhumers cost similar to Battleships why not give them respective ehps?

just an idea for being reasonable....


There are 2 mining barges that can have bs like tank, Procurer and Skiff. Also did you forget that they can use drones, even the offensive ones.


and the excuse for a hulk being the size of a battle cruiser and having a tank of a destroyer?
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-24 19:13:53 UTC
Frost 3 wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:
the EHP on a mining barge or exhumer is stupid low. In some cases regardless of what you do you cant tank them against an attack. Why is this? why would someone design a ship that moves at a snails pace, participates in a stationary task so affectingly the most likely target and oh By the way has 0 Offensive ability. ... as a benefit of all of that... lets make them ridiculously easy to kill too...


Anyone notice how stupid that is? I mean seriously I'm not a rocket scientist but if I made a ship that was super slow and no aggressive ability the Defense would take a pretty big step forward as the Major design option... Considering Exhumers cost similar to Battleships why not give them respective ehps?

just an idea for being reasonable....


There are 2 mining barges that can have bs like tank, Procurer and Skiff. Also did you forget that they can use drones, even the offensive ones.


and the excuse for a hulk being the size of a battle cruiser and having a tank of a destroyer?


We are given choice to be greedy and go for maximum yield with Hulk/Covetor while having lowest cargo hold and ehp, cautious with Procurer/Skiff for BS like tank while having lowest yield, Retriever/Mackinaw for biggest cargo hold while having lower yield and ehp.
Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#5 - 2013-02-24 19:18:33 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:
the EHP on a mining barge or exhumer is stupid low. In some cases regardless of what you do you cant tank them against an attack. Why is this? why would someone design a ship that moves at a snails pace, participates in a stationary task so affectingly the most likely target and oh By the way has 0 Offensive ability. ... as a benefit of all of that... lets make them ridiculously easy to kill too...


Anyone notice how stupid that is? I mean seriously I'm not a rocket scientist but if I made a ship that was super slow and no aggressive ability the Defense would take a pretty big step forward as the Major design option... Considering Exhumers cost similar to Battleships why not give them respective ehps?

just an idea for being reasonable....


There are 2 mining barges that can have bs like tank, Procurer and Skiff. Also did you forget that they can use drones, even the offensive ones.


and the excuse for a hulk being the size of a battle cruiser and having a tank of a destroyer?


We are given choice to be greedy and go for maximum yield with Hulk/Covetor while having lowest cargo hold and ehp, cautious with Procurer/Skiff for BS like tank while having lowest yield, Retriever/Mackinaw for biggest cargo hold while having lower yield and ehp.

so your saying that you think a ship of that size should be able to be crushed in 12 seconds by a single destroyer? logi dictates a ship without offensive ability (and drones are not aggressive they are enough to ward off rats at most) would focus on defense...
BobDole DraggoFasst
Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys
#6 - 2013-02-24 19:25:15 UTC
The point is fleet defense, as the mining barges are SOCIAL ships. A single/fleet of Procuror/Skiffs in a dangerous area can handle being attacked for a bit while the guardian fleet comes to the rescue. A Retriever/Mackinaw in a reasonably safe area is a decent solo miner. The Covetor/Hulk in fleet ops is king, as with orca/Rorqual support it outmines everything else. These ships were never meant to stand alone, the venture was intended to stand alone. The rest of the ships were designed for fleet operations. I fail to see the real point in your arguement, other than "I get ganked while AFK mining and would like it to stop" The easy answer is to not AFK mine, to set up fleet ops with your corp, and make some serious isk.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#7 - 2013-02-24 19:28:16 UTC
Last time i checked barges are closer to cruiser size and I got in excess of 40k ehp on a procurer without t2 shield mods or rigs. The price is basically supply and demand so that doesn't really matter.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-24 19:28:24 UTC
Frost 3 wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:
the EHP on a mining barge or exhumer is stupid low. In some cases regardless of what you do you cant tank them against an attack. Why is this? why would someone design a ship that moves at a snails pace, participates in a stationary task so affectingly the most likely target and oh By the way has 0 Offensive ability. ... as a benefit of all of that... lets make them ridiculously easy to kill too...


Anyone notice how stupid that is? I mean seriously I'm not a rocket scientist but if I made a ship that was super slow and no aggressive ability the Defense would take a pretty big step forward as the Major design option... Considering Exhumers cost similar to Battleships why not give them respective ehps?

just an idea for being reasonable....


There are 2 mining barges that can have bs like tank, Procurer and Skiff. Also did you forget that they can use drones, even the offensive ones.


and the excuse for a hulk being the size of a battle cruiser and having a tank of a destroyer?


We are given choice to be greedy and go for maximum yield with Hulk/Covetor while having lowest cargo hold and ehp, cautious with Procurer/Skiff for BS like tank while having lowest yield, Retriever/Mackinaw for biggest cargo hold while having lower yield and ehp.

so your saying that you think a ship of that size should be able to be crushed in 12 seconds by a single destroyer? logi dictates a ship without offensive ability (and drones are not aggressive they are enough to ward off rats at most) would focus on defense...


While i would love to have my hulk sturdier too i understand where you are coming from but when the mining barges were balanced the idea was to give a role to each of them and not just have the old decent, better and best ship.

I understand that it must feel unfair and stupid to have few million ship able to easily gank 200 million tech 2 ship but unfortunately this is how things are now and if you are afraid of ganks you should go with Procurer/Skiff.
Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#9 - 2013-02-24 19:45:32 UTC

Im not sure if you understand the purpose of this subsection on the forums

its for proposed changes and ideas not well its always been this way so f it... lets keep it.
Dave stark
#10 - 2013-02-24 19:52:59 UTC
the exhumer rebalance failed miserably, but this thread addresses none of those issues.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#11 - 2013-02-24 20:00:49 UTC
Is this seriously a thread, after the massive buff to their tanks they just got?

lol
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#12 - 2013-02-24 20:07:54 UTC
Frost 3 wrote:

and the excuse for a hulk being the size of a battle cruiser and having a tank of a destroyer?


Lowest sig rad for combat BCs = ~250
Highest sigrad for combat BCs = ~300
Lowest sig rad for attack BCs = ~170
Highest sigrad for attack BCs = ~200
Hulk sig rad = 150

Destroyer base EHP = ~4000
Attack BC ( closest to Hulk in terms of size ) base EHP = ~9000
Hulk's base EHP = ~11000

Attack BC ( closest to Hulk in terms of size ) possible EHP = ~25000
Hulk's possible EHP = ~40000

Hulk = dedicated fleet mining ship
BCs = dedicated combat vessels
OP = idiot
Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#13 - 2013-02-24 21:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Frost 3
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:

and the excuse for a hulk being the size of a battle cruiser and having a tank of a destroyer?


Lowest sig rad for combat BCs = ~250
Highest sigrad for combat BCs = ~300
Lowest sig rad for attack BCs = ~170
Highest sigrad for attack BCs = ~200
Hulk sig rad = 150

Destroyer base EHP = ~4000
Attack BC ( closest to Hulk in terms of size ) base EHP = ~9000
Hulk's base EHP = ~11000

Attack BC ( closest to Hulk in terms of size ) possible EHP = ~25000
Hulk's possible EHP = ~40000

Hulk = dedicated fleet mining ship
BCs = dedicated combat vessels
OP = idiot

I want to see your fit for a hulk if you can get 40k ehp at most I can get 22k ehp

It has effectively 42 power grid, you cant fit a medium shield extender on there and still have room for 3 modulated strip miners
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-24 21:36:06 UTC
BobDole DraggoFasst wrote:
The point is fleet defense, as the mining barges are SOCIAL ships. A single/fleet of Procuror/Skiffs in a dangerous area can handle being attacked for a bit while the guardian fleet comes to the rescue. A Retriever/Mackinaw in a reasonably safe area is a decent solo miner. The Covetor/Hulk in fleet ops is king, as with orca/Rorqual support it outmines everything else. These ships were never meant to stand alone, the venture was intended to stand alone. The rest of the ships were designed for fleet operations. I fail to see the real point in your arguement, other than "I get ganked while AFK mining and would like it to stop" The easy answer is to not AFK mine, to set up fleet ops with your corp, and make some serious isk.


Please, enlighten us on how do your "fleet defense" would save your hulks from highsec gankers.Lol
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#15 - 2013-02-24 21:49:44 UTC
Frost 3 wrote:

I want to see your fit for a hulk if you can get 40k ehp at most I can get 22k ehp


1. You could try using some tanking modules/rigs for instance ( AIF + DC + CDFE + Extenders ).
2. Remembering that this is a fleet mining ship could also help ( gang links, both siege and armour ).
3. There are also those things called : implants.

Last I checked you could get at least 38k EHP on Hulk. It ain't pretty but it's doable. That is the same thing others need to do with their ships you know : fitting choices.
Of course some of you miners always want to get full yield + full tank with no fitting constraints, which was the main reason for mining ship 'rebalance'.
That is a problem with you people and not the game.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-02-24 22:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Frost 3 wrote:

I want to see your fit for a hulk if you can get 40k ehp at most I can get 22k ehp


1. You could try using some tanking modules/rigs for instance ( AIF + DC + CDFE + Extenders ).
2. Remembering that this is a fleet mining ship could also help ( gang links, both siege and armour ).
3. There are also those things called : implants.

Last I checked you could get at least 38k EHP on Hulk. It ain't pretty but it's doable. That is the same thing others need to do with their ships you know : fitting choices.
Of course some of you miners always want to get full yield + full tank with no fitting constraints, which was the main reason for mining ship 'rebalance'.
That is a problem with you people and not the game.



Deadspace tank. Your Hulk now takes 2 Catalysts to pop instead of one. That km is going to be hilarious. Lol

Debating whether barges should be able to fit tank is one thing. Suggesting that they currently can fit one worth a damn is only making a fool out of yourself, and no one else.Roll
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#17 - 2013-02-24 22:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Frost 3 wrote:
logi dictates a ship without offensive ability (and drones are not aggressive they are enough to ward off rats at most) would focus on defense...

Logic dictates that mining ships are special and they sacrifice defense for larger ore hold/yield. If you want to be tanky in a mining ship then use skiff <- that was main idea behind rebalance of mining barges.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#18 - 2013-02-24 22:16:19 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

Deadspace tank. Your Hulk now takes 2 Catalysts to pop instead of one. That km is going to be hilarious. Lol

Debating whether barges should be able to fit tank is one thing. Suggesting that they currently can fit one worth a damn is only making a fool out of yourself, and no one else.Roll


[Tanky Fleet Hulk]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

+ SM Gnome 705

Yeah, I see a lot of deadspace here.
For someone with at least modicum of intelligence I wouldn't add it but since you are a special case, here it goes :
This is a fleet mining ship.
Now you surely get it.
.
.
.
Oh, who am I kidding, you don't get it do you.
Here's a hint for you : defensive gang links.
I really hope you get it now. If not then you are beyond anyone's help, sorry.
Frost 3
Sub--Zero
#19 - 2013-02-24 22:43:27 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
sabre906 wrote:

Deadspace tank. Your Hulk now takes 2 Catalysts to pop instead of one. That km is going to be hilarious. Lol

Debating whether barges should be able to fit tank is one thing. Suggesting that they currently can fit one worth a damn is only making a fool out of yourself, and no one else.Roll


[Tanky Fleet Hulk]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

+ SM Gnome 705

Yeah, I see a lot of deadspace here.
For someone with at least modicum of intelligence I wouldn't add it but since you are a special case, here it goes :
This is a fleet mining ship.
Now you surely get it.
.
.
.
Oh, who am I kidding, you don't get it do you.
Here's a hint for you : defensive gang links.
I really hope you get it now. If not then you are beyond anyone's help, sorry.


1 this fit doesn't work CPU wise even with a T2 Micro Auxiliary Power Core 2 and both Ca-1 and CA-2 implants for fitting. is actually not capable of running power grid wise without the CA-1 and Ca-2 implants....

2 shield harmonizers are a must anyways.

3 You still fail on EHP calculations cause at level 5 most EHP with that fit is 34,210 far short of the 40K (not to mention the invalid fitting options)
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#20 - 2013-02-24 23:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Frost 3 wrote:
1 this fit doesn't work CPU wise even with a T2 Micro Auxiliary Power Core 2 and both Ca-1 and CA-2 implants for fitting. is actually not capable of running power grid wise without the CA-1 and Ca-2 implants....

2 shield harmonizers are a must anyways.

3 You still fail on EHP calculations cause at level 5 most EHP with that fit is 34,210 far short of the 40K (not to mention the invalid fitting options)

Perfectly fits with EE-602 (Or CA-1 + CA-2), 41k ehp with tengu links, 46k ehp with 2nd extender rig and EG-605 implant + CA-1/2.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
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