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Please take notice CCP, dont go overboard with carebare love.
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SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#1 - 2013-02-19 14:25:43 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
honestly i also fear there may be a trend of ccp taking over control of the universe they created and turning it into a protected kindergarten in the long run.... i hope they keep in mind that simulating a real place is far more important to the games total immersiveness than making it easier for players that dont want to accept the world they play in for what it is and have it be just to their liking.

I far preferr the notion of eve becomming like a real environment where you must learn to protect yourself, study your surroundings and options and play to its rules like in the real world, rather than turning it into a colorful Disneyland.

I hope the strategic secion of ccp acknowledges my vision and takes it sincerely or i fear eve may eventualy loose its overall characteristic of being a 'mature' game in a greater sense, which to me was a decisive selling point.

i really like how eve began.... the aurum store was a gut shot.....and the new additions are on the margin of acceptability, yet rationaly understandable to the most of their extent..... but i hope ccp respects the dangers of total creative power and understands when to marginalize the madness. the game needs many additions, development and intuition in all aspects of it but they must certainly be implimented without causing harm to the games personality and individual feeling aka do not destroy the original atmosphere and character of eve itsself.

otherwise it will become a different game... and so with maybe one day loose a big part its original believability, harshness, its urge to succeed in a dangerous place, the urge it created for new players to want to master a greater challenge than in the average MMO and its magic altogether.

remember that i am aware of null being open to everything, but even in highsec too much regulation and protection would still make the game incredibly unrealistic in a social and a simulated enviromental sense.

Legba
Rengerel en Distel
#2 - 2013-02-19 14:28:54 UTC
don't you hate when you should hit reply, but you hit new topic instead ...

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#3 - 2013-02-19 14:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
don't you hate when you should hit reply, but you hit new topic instead ...


no i wanted this to be a new topic so that more people see this to me important and specific point... the opening sentence's incomplete state people should be able to handle emotionally once they get the gist of things ;)

ok ready to be forum bashed.... but remember all the standard comments will not change my initial opinion on this topic... also it is not definitive in my mind its just a possibility i felt i wanted to communicate to ccp and the players who care should ccp one day remember this speech and may it then save us from loosing eve to some new management change within ccps ranks.... ( i know i focus on doomsday theories too much).

Pessimism can be a virtue when used as a precautious measure.

Legba
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-02-19 14:33:27 UTC
If people would just undock and fly to low/null, and stop whining about imaginary safety issues, they would probably have a lot more fun.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#5 - 2013-02-19 14:35:19 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
honestly i also fear there may be a trend of ccp taking over control of the universe they created and turning it into a protected kindergarten in the long run.... i hope they keep in mind that simulating a real place is far more important to the games total immersiveness than making it easier for players that dont want to accept the world they play in for what it is and have it be just to their liking.


Is this not exactly what you are trying to do??
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#6 - 2013-02-19 14:37:09 UTC
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
honestly i also fear there may be a trend of ccp taking over control of the universe they created and turning it into a protected kindergarten in the long run.... i hope they keep in mind that simulating a real place is far more important to the games total immersiveness than making it easier for players that dont want to accept the world they play in for what it is and have it be just to their liking.


Is this not exactly what you are trying to do??




not at all :D

Legba
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#7 - 2013-02-19 14:39:29 UTC
Dante Uisen wrote:
If people would just undock and fly to low/null, and stop whining about imaginary safety issues, they would probably have a lot more fun.


i live in nullsec man, its not like highsec is not part of the game though.

my issue here is with perceived realism.... a total safe zone would drasticly dimm the environments credibility.

Legba
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-19 14:42:42 UTC
Dante Uisen wrote:
If people would just undock and fly to low/null, and stop whining about imaginary safety issues, they would probably have a lot more fun.


It's mostly nullseccers whining about highsec safety...

Dodixie > Hek
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-02-19 14:43:39 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Dante Uisen wrote:
If people would just undock and fly to low/null, and stop whining about imaginary safety issues, they would probably have a lot more fun.


i live in nullsec man, its not like highsec is not part of the game though.

my issue here is with perceived realism.... a total safe zone would drasticly dimm the environments credibility.


If you want to fight someone in hi-sec, wardec them or just gank them it's as safe as you allow it to be.
Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-02-19 14:46:43 UTC
Well null is not what it used to be from the moment when NPC started to protect the pilots shooting them
pretty much like concord, now they can enjoy their safe area inside an anomaly, pretty confident that anybody
without a proper tanked ship (read pve) can't engage them. Most of the pvp ships/fits are not able to sustain the
anomaly damage plus the damage from the pvp target, especially the ships that can be used in hostile teritory.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#11 - 2013-02-19 14:50:07 UTC
Dante Uisen wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Dante Uisen wrote:
If people would just undock and fly to low/null, and stop whining about imaginary safety issues, they would probably have a lot more fun.


i live in nullsec man, its not like highsec is not part of the game though.

my issue here is with perceived realism.... a total safe zone would drasticly dimm the environments credibility.


If you want to fight someone in hi-sec, wardec them or just gank them it's as safe as you allow it to be.



i dont want to wardec someone for every miniscule scrap that goes down when im in highsec. and ganking whilst acceptable, takes away a realistic notion of life which is the faint possiblility of getting away with a crime. this im my eyes does exactly what i mentioneb before: it gives the environments crediblity and immersiveness a sort of' brick to the face wake up call sensation that reminds one that: eve is just a game.... which i think goes against what a good game , book , movie or what ever any other form of entertainment you can think of should do.

Legba
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-19 14:58:08 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
i dont want to wardec someone for every miniscule scrap that goes down when im in highsec.


Tough luck, eve is not known to reward people because they "don't want to do something". Hi-sec pvp is obviously to much of a challenge for you, so stay in null and camp gates with you buds, and do you little kindergarten style pvp with fc's holding you hand and what not.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-02-19 14:58:41 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
honestly i also fear there may be a trend of ccp taking over control of the universe they created and turning it into a protected kindergarten in the long run....


I submit into evidence...
- the 'Venture' and its inbuilt warp stab
- the 'you cant eject' timer
- being able to take from a suspects container without going suspect yourself (who's to say all the stuff in there is stolen & originally owned by the person taking it back hmm?)


Would you like to know more?
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#14 - 2013-02-19 14:59:05 UTC
Dante Uisen wrote:
If people would just undock and fly to low/null, and stop whining about imaginary safety issues, they would probably have a lot more fun.


Yes because the average player has nothing to fear from the imaginary gate camps. Roll I live in null and I am always amazed at new players looking to fly ships down to null from hi-sec to join the alliance. 95% percent never make it and they become frustrated. Some never make it at all.

It takes a specific tactic and ship to survive the trip to and from null to hi-sec. Even with hundreds of trip under your belt and the best ship and the best gear and the best scout, you can still be caught if the campers are big enough and prepared.

I seen allot of tengu pilots feel invulnerable because of their modules and I have see those same tengu pilots burn in a fire because they were decloaked and killed before they could not make it back to gate.

Hi-sec should be safer then null and maybe it is. All I know is when I am in null and keep any sense of situational awareness it’s hard to get caught. It can and does happen, sometimes just pure bad luck.

When in hi-sec there are too many people to watch and keep up with. Anyone can be a potential enemy my awareness is worn down to almost zero because of all the possible targets or would be evil doers.

Hi-sec should be safer then null. The problem is people are lulled into a false sense of security and then they get ganked. Make ganking no profitable and you will be on your way to a better balanced game.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#15 - 2013-02-19 15:00:39 UTC
Dante Uisen wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
i dont want to wardec someone for every miniscule scrap that goes down when im in highsec.


Tough luck, eve is not known to reward people because they "don't want to do something". Hi-sec pvp is obviously to much of a challenge for you, so stay in null and camp gates with you buds, and do you little kindergarten style pvp with fc's holding you hand and what not.


u really do absoloutly not understand what im trying to say mate ;) ive done high warfare and enjoyed it.... why dont you try to reply about the realistic protrayal of an open world part of the discussion ;)

Legba
Mao Cat Tung
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-02-19 15:15:21 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:

... why dont you try to reply about the realistic protrayal of an open world part of the discussion ;)



I'll take a stab at that:

In one Open World I personally know of, there are multiple levels of safety, from Highly Safe zones within major cities in 1rst world countries like England, Canada, and USA to name just a few, and there are also somewhat safe areas where one goes at one's own risk, but can reasonably expect to travel fairly safe; some Central American and Middle Eastern countries without naming any and giving offense. Then there are no man's lands where only the biggest guns survive such as zones of unrest/cartels/tyranical rule...as well there are zones within each zone where the rules reverse; Slums in major cities, Enclaves of the rich and powerful in an otherwise drug cartel nation.

So imo EVE does a fairly good job of providing multiple experiences of safety levels, choose-able for the most part by it's subscribers.

What the OP is suggesting is to remove that choice from subscribers and forcing everyone into a "no man's land"...which is FAR from an Open world.

fly safe, or not.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#17 - 2013-02-19 15:19:31 UTC
Samuel Wess wrote:
Most of the pvp ships/fits are not able to sustain the anomaly damage plus the damage from the pvp target, especially the ships that can be used in hostile teritory.


Let me introduce you to the concept of the logi ship. You should look into it, especially if your gang is roaming around without it.
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#18 - 2013-02-19 15:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: SoOza N'GasZ
Mao Cat Tung wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:

... why dont you try to reply about the realistic protrayal of an open world part of the discussion ;)



I'll take a stab at that:

In one Open World I personally know of, there are multiple levels of safety, from Highly Safe zones within major cities in 1rst world countries like England, Canada, and USA to name just a few, and there are also somewhat safe areas where one goes at one's own risk, but can reasonably expect to travel fairly safe; some Central American and Middle Eastern countries without naming any and giving offense. Then there are no man's lands where only the biggest guns survive such as zones of unrest/cartels/tyranical rule...as well there are zones within each zone where the rules reverse; Slums in major cities, Enclaves of the rich and powerful in an otherwise drug cartel nation.

So imo EVE does a fairly good job of providing multiple experiences of safety levels, choose-able for the most part by it's subscribers.

What the OP is suggesting is to remove that choice from subscribers and forcing everyone into a "no man's land"...which is FAR from an Open world.

fly safe, or not.


thats not true i never said remove all safety regulations... i said implement them in a way that they are realistic... and initially all i wanted to do was warn ccp not to go too far... you also did not completely and honestly acquire my initial writing.

In reality u can travel safely but nothing is 100% safe i think highsec should be very safe but it should also have options for criminal intervention... only as in real life to excute a real heist... they should need a lot of preparation and skill in execution.

To me the whole matter is one of extensive balancing. This is what ccp is doing anyway... im just trying to define the macro direction in order to possibly achieve exceptional results for an atmosphere based entertainment scheme.

Btw what mmo are you talking about?

Legba
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-19 15:34:05 UTC
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
thats not true i never said remove all safety regulations... i said implement them in a way that they are realistic...

so you mean "give these regulations to players"?
this is already present in 0.0 and we all see its result: totally blue 0.0 and constant anger towards high-seccers from 0.0 dwellers.

Not sure we need more of it in this game

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
SoOza N'GasZ
L F C
Ethereal Dawn
#20 - 2013-02-19 15:36:38 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
thats not true i never said remove all safety regulations... i said implement them in a way that they are realistic...

so you mean "give these regulations to players"?
this is already present in 0.0 and we all see its result: totally blue 0.0 and constant anger towards high-seccers from 0.0 dwellers.

Not sure we need more of it in this game


No when i say implement i mean for ccp to implement gameplay structures as they are allready doing... i just dont want them to make high sec UNREALISTICLY safe.

Legba
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