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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Author
Random McNally
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#2661 - 2013-02-14 17:40:29 UTC
During my time in EVE, I've lived out of POS's in null sec, in WH's (very briefly) and have run an industrial POS for quite some time. I would like to say that the change in fueling alone (YEA fuelblocks!) made a big difference in operation and the hassle level.

I understand that the coding/reworking of a bottom up POS change would be massive. I also understand that you have metrics for gaging how many people/how much/whereabouts a POS change would affect.

It was pretty much stated in the minutes that a POS revamp would consume a large amount of your resources and that your devs have a finite amount of time to dedicate to particular revamps/content/rebalancing/jesus features/null. I think that it's pretty clear that we would like you to consider keeping POS reworking NOT on the back burner (or stuffed into a laundry hamper in the back of your respective closets) but at least enough in the forefront so that it doesn't go forgotten.

Living out of a POS (as they currently are) sucks. Been there, done that. Would I unsubscribe just because you don't revamp them? Nah. But it would certainly make many of us happy to see some continuous iterations (potentially leading to a revamp) to not only inform us that you are giving it some thought and resources, but to give the POS users some indication of where it's going so that we can provide feedback.

I would be overjoyed to have Lego POS's but does MY version of the Lego POS match what you folks have in mind?

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Char Kion
Southern Cross Task Force
#2662 - 2013-02-14 21:50:08 UTC
Just another pilot that needs a pos/roles revamp
Wh living in a pos sucks
AnJuan Jackson
Red Star Trading Corporation
#2663 - 2013-02-15 19:26:52 UTC
Post-Valentines day bump because I'm still depressed that POS's aren't getting enough love.
Cain Leigh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2664 - 2013-02-16 12:07:12 UTC
Random McNally wrote:
During my time in EVE, I've lived out of POS's in null sec, in WH's (very briefly) and have run an industrial POS for quite some time. I would like to say that the change in fueling alone (YEA fuelblocks!) made a big difference in operation and the hassle level.

I understand that the coding/reworking of a bottom up POS change would be massive. I also understand that you have metrics for gaging how many people/how much/whereabouts a POS change would affect.

It was pretty much stated in the minutes that a POS revamp would consume a large amount of your resources and that your devs have a finite amount of time to dedicate to particular revamps/content/rebalancing/jesus features/null. I think that it's pretty clear that we would like you to consider keeping POS reworking NOT on the back burner (or stuffed into a laundry hamper in the back of your respective closets) but at least enough in the forefront so that it doesn't go forgotten.

Living out of a POS (as they currently are) sucks. Been there, done that. Would I unsubscribe just because you don't revamp them? Nah. But it would certainly make many of us happy to see some continuous iterations (potentially leading to a revamp) to not only inform us that you are giving it some thought and resources, but to give the POS users some indication of where it's going so that we can provide feedback.

I would be overjoyed to have Lego POS's but does MY version of the Lego POS match what you folks have in mind?



I agree with the finite amount of dev time available,

Instead of the total bullshit that was walking in stations they'd better spend all that time on revamping POSes

I mean, i'm sure 95% percent of the players turned it off on the first day. (what was it? POSes, I'm a small portion of the community?)

And with along with the POS revamp they could actually increase the portion of the community that uses these POSes by adding public player markets and other stuff. They cannot do this with the gimmick that is called WiS because A, it has no features, and B people cannot run it on their laptops/pc's (specially if they use multiple accounts)
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#2665 - 2013-02-16 21:09:36 UTC
Yes, please work on POS (either current code or a revamp/rewrite). I use a POS every day, all day, as a wormhole dweller. When I wasn't in the wormhole, I'd use a POS for my industry bent.
Dhuras
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#2666 - 2013-02-17 01:08:45 UTC
I'm just not sold on this finite resources argument. CCP knows it has to get done, and the longer you put it off the worse its gonna be to redo all that code. If you get it done now you've got it out of the way and you can work on new systems all you like, and a large number of your players will be much happier.

no more kicking the can down the road
Robart Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
#2667 - 2013-02-18 03:05:26 UTC
I am a director in a corp which has at various time literally dozens of POSes. each one is slightly different. each one is decently set up. each one has been up for months. and you know what? a thief without ANY Starbase roles managed to come in and unanchor and steal 4 billion ISK worth of labs.

TL:DR POS broken, permissions broken. here is a theme, Personal empires. build your POS, build your corp, build your home, and do it without any need to really launch a dozen POSes to manage your research and capital factories. honestly, i don't need to track a billion bookmarks, and i don't like wandering around a giant POS to find that that mod i need is in another one, having spent 15 minutes checking hangars. give us modular POSes, give us a coalition system and alliance BMs. please don't make us indy guys watch another update without any love for our directors, when FCs have all these shiny new ships to order around. you want us to enable? you want fully player built goods? give us a system for alliances and coalitions to combine forces and build a super POS, give us a way to really make those fragging sticks a way to give aggressing fleets the finger, and deliver a market seed in one go, without a dozen JFs. let us have those things, and by whatever you believe in, whatever you cherish, we will make you amazed at these "carebears" who can move a supercap fleet across the region without help, or who can build more ammo than you can jetcan.

let's do it. let's blow some minds, with POS, and lasers too.
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#2668 - 2013-02-18 14:02:46 UTC
I've been using POS in every situation for 4 or 5 years now, the entire system needs a revamp BUT...

In the short term, a very small, much more straightforward change would massively change the usage and enjoyment, along with player retention and small corp and null corp industry and production:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2631561
baker43
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2669 - 2013-02-18 14:54:11 UTC
Running the largest POSes in WH Space is a logistical nightmare to say the least.
Although we found some ingenious ways to run dynamic setups, we need to have 90% idle modules in a POS while switching manufacturing cycles.

At least it cant get worse. :ccp:

I am lowering my accounts from 9 to 3 if POS:es are not on the correct patch after Fan Fest Big smile
Zodiac TheMarketRat
Misanthropic Anthropomorphic Anthropologists
#2670 - 2013-02-18 16:52:31 UTC
Roles / Permissions management, more than anything else, would be a blessing to both general corporation management and POS management as well. I would be exceptionally pleased if we were simply given a better permissions system. It is excruciating. All else can wait.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#2671 - 2013-02-19 00:55:19 UTC
Posting, please fix POS's. I've read a few of the replies, inlcuding CCP's and it sounds like you guys are going to -start- doing -something- about them. I understand there's a new expansion style, and you can't do everything at once, etc etc. POS's are a huge pain though, for me an everyone else (and I don't even use them that much 0_o). Lets get the ball rolling now and then iterate on them expansion after expansion.

Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#2672 - 2013-02-19 15:36:49 UTC
Well it's getting near the end of February. Within the next week or two , we should hear the future plans, and if a POS revamp is in there.

Buying yourself a month and a half was smart, gave you time to think and for this thread to quiet down. But don't be fooled into thinking we have forgot.

Many people have come forth showing their interest. We have been very civil, some great ideas have been put forth, and, as always, you guys seem to come up with great innovative ideas yourself. So here's hoping some fantastic (and much needed) POS love is in the works.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2673 - 2013-02-19 18:09:16 UTC
Well, they have promised POS improvements in the summer expansion. I for one will be looking forward to what they can improve, even if it is just a start.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2674 - 2013-02-20 20:40:23 UTC
Yes POSes need major help, everything from roles and the management interface to hangar security and much more.
Knorkor
Ministry of Silly Walk
#2675 - 2013-02-21 05:22:22 UTC
My side of the coin:

My Corp did not want a POS since we have a station system, but I am a producer, so I need one in nullsec.
I finance it myself, but sometimes Lines are empty. Not all, but some.
So I would kinda like to open a line or two, not the whole module, to the corp for a fee.
That does not work until those people have all access to hangars and if they have the roles, they can cancel each others jobs and steal each others stuff.
The setup for each line is there, it just cannot be used properly.
So if you could just tune that in, so it works out of the personal hangar on station if set to public or by standing etc, that would be most welcome. Of course that person would need Scientific Networking, but it would be so easy to handle access for the POS Labs for everyone in my corp.
Dark Reignz
Four-Q
#2676 - 2013-02-21 11:45:37 UTC
As someone who has been playing on and off since 2006 I remember the original thread where a player suggested the modular pos idea and put the effort in to create some awesome looking designs. The forum was buzzing.

7 years later...
endless amount of threads...
god knows how many thousands of supportive posts....

And we are all still waiting for this to get rolling.

Even for players who float in and out of the game, through null back into empire, in alliances or solo endevours, this is something a large portion of the players base defo want to see at some point during our lifetimes. Modular Pos & improved permissions. Yes please.





Troll Mode - ON

Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#2677 - 2013-02-21 16:00:59 UTC
CCP Seagull wrote:

The potential for player created and owned structures in EVE is great. But just like both me and CCP Unifex talked about in our recent devblogs, and in the summit sessions, we need to work out how we can realize each piece of that, using our new processes. One expansion worth of work won't be able to address all the problems with the current system, while also giving us all the new possibilities. While we weren't ready to commit to implementing the prototype we have at the moment, we are not abandoning either starbases or their potential.

You will see the first results of our new way of planning expansions towards the end of February, and you can follow the process through the CSM participation and also some updates I'll be giving. I can't and won't promise that specific features or fixes will be part of the summer expansion until we have gone through our pre-production phase.

Thanks for reading this, and for engaging in this discussion.

Bump for bumpness!

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Prekyba
Turgus
#2678 - 2013-02-21 19:23:55 UTC
I am just another small portion of the community...
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2679 - 2013-02-22 03:39:41 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
CCP Seagull wrote:

The potential for player created and owned structures in EVE is great. But just like both me and CCP Unifex talked about in our recent devblogs, and in the summit sessions, we need to work out how we can realize each piece of that, using our new processes. One expansion worth of work won't be able to address all the problems with the current system, while also giving us all the new possibilities. While we weren't ready to commit to implementing the prototype we have at the moment, we are not abandoning either starbases or their potential.

You will see the first results of our new way of planning expansions towards the end of February, and you can follow the process through the CSM participation and also some updates I'll be giving. I can't and won't promise that specific features or fixes will be part of the summer expansion until we have gone through our pre-production phase.

Thanks for reading this, and for engaging in this discussion.

Bump for bumpness!



I still wish she'd have actually said something. :P

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.

Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#2680 - 2013-02-22 05:08:32 UTC
CCP Seagull wrote:

The potential for player created and owned structures in EVE is great. But just like both me and CCP Unifex talked about in our recent devblogs, and in the summit sessions, we need to work out how we can realize each piece of that, using our new processes. One expansion worth of work won't be able to address all the problems with the current system, while also giving us all the new possibilities. While we weren't ready to commit to implementing the prototype we have at the moment, we are not abandoning either starbases or their potential.

You will see the first results of our new way of planning expansions towards the end of February, and you can follow the process through the CSM participation and also some updates I'll be giving. I can't and won't promise that specific features or fixes will be part of the summer expansion until we have gone through our pre-production phase.

Thanks for reading this, and for engaging in this discussion.



I realize you guys are dealing with some ancient code and I don't expect miracles but let's face it, 7 to 10 year old code in this day and age truly is considered ancient. Your current programming staff might not know what its doing or what it's tied into, but the flip side to that is you folks should have had some code documentation or should have had someone doing it.

When I was in my programming heyday, deep into object oriented design & programming, I had documentation.

Fast forward a few years into HTML, and I had documentation.

Another fast forward into my present job. I have tons of documentation in Visio, with a dedicated "Changes" page, about the two physically separate networks I'm responsible for which include over thirty VLAN's, just over two dozen servers, and 40+ Cisco switches on each network. It also includes documentations on both the public and private IP space I manage, and how every device connects whether its fiber, CAT5e/CAT6, or the low bandwidth satellite shot used solely as a backup if the fiber backbone crashes.

I have documentation, not because the next guy might need it ..... but because it keeps me from going insane.

As a former programmer I can say this: if you guys don't know what your code does because you don't have documentation, you all have collectively failed from the top down.

It's becoming more and more obvious that the lack of documentation for your code is becoming the biggest hurdle you have when it comes to fixing your code or adding features in future releases.