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Hide your ISK, Team Security is out of control. (Allegedly)

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#141 - 2013-02-12 13:06:33 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
In my opinion cache scraping is illegal.

It has always been said that modifying the client, either on the network, on the disk or in memory, is against the EULA.


Technically I think you can achieve this without modifying the client itself fwiw.


You can't do it without interacting with local files used by the client. In my perfect world those would be protected better. As I said you won't be banned for it today but that's why I take issue with it. We should be enabling this via the API instead.



Now this I'd agree with completely.

Though I'd prefer it to have some latency. Perfect market data is somewhat dangerous to the market. Some lag isn't a bad thing.

I'd /love/ to see CCP publishing data in a similar way to EMDR. Not a perfect 'ask for data, get right up to the second data' but a 'here's a firehose of market information. Do with it what you will.'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
gfldex
#142 - 2013-02-12 13:10:00 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'd stick to the actual legal agreement you agreed to rather than outdated GM replies.


You may want to have a chat with a lawyer about that matter. At least here in Germany that EULA is a mere state of intent. Iceland is not just yet a EU member but some european laws already apply.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Whitehound
#143 - 2013-02-12 13:10:03 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
In my opinion cache scraping is illegal.

It has always been said that modifying the client, either on the network, on the disk or in memory, is against the EULA.


Cache scraping is read only. No modification.

Depends on what "scraping" really means. I understand it as "modifying" the cache. Why would you call it "scrapping" when you are reading it?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2013-02-12 13:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Whitehound wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
In my opinion cache scraping is illegal.

It has always been said that modifying the client, either on the network, on the disk or in memory, is against the EULA.


Cache scraping is read only. No modification.

Depends on what "scraping" really means. I understand it as "modifying" the cache. Why would you call it "scrapping" when you are reading it?

it's a standing expression - just like "web scraping" (which doesn't modify any websites either)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_scraping

.
Whitehound
#145 - 2013-02-12 13:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Equto wrote:
I personally would love an API for this, however with all the market sites and custom programs people use I am not entirely sure the API servers can take alot more. Not to mention the killmail pulls are already at the limits of some pulls.

There is an API for it. EVEMon and EVEAsset use it and you can view your market orders, as well as contracts, transactions, journals and assets with it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Equto
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#146 - 2013-02-12 13:16:54 UTC
Whitehound wrote:

There is an API for it. EVEMon and EVEAsset use it and you can view your market orders, as well as contracts, transactions, journals and assets with it.


Small amounts of market orders that are cached at 30 minutes or more isn't that big of a problem nor are the API request large in any way. Imagine pulling just all the market orders in jita, the XML would be several kilobytes.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2013-02-12 13:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Whitehound wrote:

There is an API for it. EVEMon and EVEAsset use it and you can view your market orders, as well as contracts, transactions, journals and assets with it.

you don't know what you are talking about.

cache scraping is used to get a full set of orders for an item (what you'd get when clicking the "Export to File" button in the market window), not just your own orders.

eve caches all market orders for items you view for a few minutes, so a common practice is to use IGB javascript to cycle through items and use a cache scraper to extract the information (and then upload it to eve-central or analyze it in a tool of your own).

you could achieve the same thing by going manually through a list of items clicking "Export To File" on each one.

.
Cotic
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2013-02-12 13:17:28 UTC
Cursan Voran wrote:
Sreegs you have won this one by a knockout.

Go do something else for a few hours and let us players deal with the dicks in this thread...


This.
Tesco tinfoil (infected with horse meat) is selling out like nothing I've ever seen before.
Garcia Arnst
Doomheim
#149 - 2013-02-12 13:18:27 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
In my opinion cache scraping is illegal.

It has always been said that modifying the client, either on the network, on the disk or in memory, is against the EULA.


Cache scraping is read only. No modification.

Depends on what "scraping" really means. I understand it as "modifying" the cache. Why would you call it "scrapping" when you are reading it?


Because you are 'scraping' (extracting) information out of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_scraping

If this is now against the EULA, then using any of the market sites which utilise scrapers would also be against the EULA (eve-central etc).
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-02-12 13:18:31 UTC
Andski wrote:
You're talking about something that is quite different from merely collecting market data for eve central, fyi


How is that relevant?, i'm allowed to parse the cache files. For some reason CCP Sreegs Sreegs seem to believe that using the javascript function to access market information is in violation of the EULA.

If they banned the guy for writing a program that CCP has allowed players to use, it's pretty ****** up.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#151 - 2013-02-12 13:20:23 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
CCP Sreegs, not the hero we want, but the hero we need.


He's Batman?

Figures lol, I saw him in my neighborhood last night and thought "That's either Sreegs in a Batman costume, or I'm getting carjacked". Now someone Tell Sreegs to bring my damn car back.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2013-02-12 13:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Cotic wrote:
Cursan Voran wrote:
Sreegs you have won this one by a knockout.

Go do something else for a few hours and let us players deal with the dicks in this thread...


This.
Tesco tinfoil (infected with horse meat) is selling out like nothing I've ever seen before.

he just told a few thousand unsuspecting evemon users that they are in violation of the EULA.

what do you expect to happen?

.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2013-02-12 13:22:10 UTC
Octaviun wrote:
Now all I'm seeing is people baiting a Dev.

baiting? all I'm seeing is people batting a Dev with a nail bat.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#154 - 2013-02-12 13:22:15 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

3) The only authority higher than the Director of Security for these complaints is the Executive Producer and then the CEO. This is a higher level of escalation than the Customer Service arm and IA automatically looks at our work.

you don't see a potential conflict of interest in IA being part of a team it is tasked to investigate?


Only in a creepy shadow world where nobody in our chain can be trusted. In this case none of us would be employable by anyone so while it might make for interesting eve news tinfoil fodder it really doesn't have much basis in reality.

In reality I'm the one who watches the watchers.


But who is watching you while you watch the watchers....who are watching us watch you? Gawd Damn it felt good to type that for some reason. Also friends don't let friends post drunk.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#155 - 2013-02-12 13:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
The capacity for a very small group of people to take this game way too seriously, and/or convince themselves into believing they are "entitled" in some manner, never ceases to amaze me.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Whitehound
#156 - 2013-02-12 13:23:00 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
In my opinion cache scraping is illegal.

It has always been said that modifying the client, either on the network, on the disk or in memory, is against the EULA.


Cache scraping is read only. No modification.

Depends on what "scraping" really means. I understand it as "modifying" the cache. Why would you call it "scrapping" when you are reading it?

it's a standing expression - just like "web scraping" (which doesn't modify any websites either)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_scraping

Well, it does modify web servers as it can create unwanted load and should not be taken as granted. Do it too much and it can turn into an unintentional DoS attack.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Cursan Voran
Jita Traders Society
#157 - 2013-02-12 13:23:47 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Cotic wrote:
Cursan Voran wrote:
Sreegs you have won this one by a knockout.

Go do something else for a few hours and let us players deal with the dicks in this thread...


This.
Tesco tinfoil (infected with horse meat) is selling out like nothing I've ever seen before.

he just told a few thousand unsuspecting evemon users that they are in violation of the EULA.

what do you expect to happen?


Nothing because he never said that?
Equto
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#158 - 2013-02-12 13:24:18 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

it's a standing expression - just like "web scraping" (which doesn't modify any websites either)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_scraping

Well, it does modify web servers as it can create unwanted load and should not be taken as granted. Do it too much and it can turn into an unintentional DoS attack.

Still nothing is modified, once the DoS is done then the website will still be there exactly the same as before the DoS.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#159 - 2013-02-12 13:26:35 UTC
Cursan Voran wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
Cotic wrote:
Cursan Voran wrote:
Sreegs you have won this one by a knockout.

Go do something else for a few hours and let us players deal with the dicks in this thread...


This.
Tesco tinfoil (infected with horse meat) is selling out like nothing I've ever seen before.

he just told a few thousand unsuspecting evemon users that they are in violation of the EULA.

what do you expect to happen?


Nothing because he never said that?




Evemon has a market cache scraper built into it now.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Josef Djugashvilis
#160 - 2013-02-12 13:26:42 UTC
Chap was caught botting.

Said chap biomassed and donated illegal isk to a player corp.

Illegal isk was removed from game.

Well done Screegs and his crew.

This is not a signature.