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Hide your ISK, Team Security is out of control. (Allegedly)

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#21 - 2013-02-12 10:48:46 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Beckie DeLey wrote:
A step in the right direction. Now if only they'd punish more people "playing" like this. While i applaud that something is done to people macroing all over the market, it is not really defendible why this guy has to go when The Wis (and others like him) and his macro army can stay.


Because ISboxer is allowed.


Yeah ISBoxer runs clients normally with normal click rates and normal action rates.

In any case it sounds like

(a) CCP discovered him outperforming humans (or by looking for massive earners and checking)
b) CCP gave him a first strike and let him ride with his 300bil, and that
(c) giving first-strike assets on to other players is going to cause CCP to confiscate - as that action becomes largely indistinguishable from RMT as far as CCP can tell.

I can't feel its unfair or should be let slide just because it was e-uni that recieved the first-strike assets.
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-02-12 10:50:14 UTC
Maybe my impression is incorrect here, but I was imagining his "in-game browser script" to not be very different from how EVE-Central calculates profitable trade items for haulers. The reason I say that is arbitrary is because if you stretch it, simply opening a notepad and writing down "buy x units of y" could be considered

Quote:
...patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency...


Now if he was automating keypresses and clicks, then I guess we can all agree it was wrong. But simply using a third party script that doesn't interact with the client, aka doesn't play the game for him, that should be ok.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-02-12 10:51:54 UTC
Now let's be honest, if that thread was about somebody in TEST or Goonswarm the community's reaction would have been "lol botter." Let's not pretend otherwise. The fact that this guy is in an ~honourable~ corp based in hisec seems to indicate, to some, that he plays within the rules, when for all we know he's been running a market bot the whole time and is just trying to start drama in response to being punished appropriately.

"But hurr they didn't remove the ISK until he sent it to E-UNI!"

The ISK wasn't there when he was banned - he liquidated his assets after the suspension period was over.

Quote:
He then proceeded to liquidate his assets, and talked to one of the E-UNI directors


So yes, it's completely within reason that this guy is a botter and he's just being a babby about being handed the same punishment that everyone gets for botting, with an exception perhaps being that his gains from botting were not removed. Seriously, try updating 30 orders in a minute even with some fancy IGB page that says what price to set them to.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#24 - 2013-02-12 10:52:45 UTC
If he created what was effectively his own UI, CCP is foolish to ban someone for improving on the pile of **** they've created. Games like WoW and TSW have allowed user created UI's, and benefited massively from their players efforts, to this day I don't understand why CCP wastes massive amounts of developer time making small UI tweaks their players could do for them.

The market UI is a prime example, I mean seriously, how many of you have actually gone through and updated a few hundred orders? It's a tedious pain in the ass, and for no good reason. CCP needs to either allow market bots (just like the real world), or fix the UI so there isn't such an incentive to use them. And I say that completely regardless of whether the case discussed in the OP involves botting or not.
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-02-12 10:53:14 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Beckie DeLey wrote:
A step in the right direction. Now if only they'd punish more people "playing" like this. While i applaud that something is done to people macroing all over the market, it is not really defendible why this guy has to go when The Wis (and others like him) and his macro army can stay.


Because ISboxer is allowed.


I know. Can't say i approve, though.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Whitehound
#26 - 2013-02-12 10:55:28 UTC
I quote from the website:

Quote:
... It transpires that “John” had been temporarily banned from EVE as CCPs ‘Team Security’ had identified his actions as ‘suspect’ - he was a station trader, and a very good one at that, playing trade markets in EVE like a professional, using the common tools available, as well as custom built tools, but never automating anything to do with the EVE client himself - the closest he ever got was probably to create custom in-game-browser pages to streamline his workflow, meaning he would log into an alt, and update around 30 orders a minute for 10-20 minutes at a time. ...


This guy changed a single market order within only 2 seconds! Think about it... You find the order, right click it and enter the price change. All within just 2 seconds.

I trade, too, but I could not ever change 300 orders with a steady pace of 2 seconds per order and for the duration of 10-20 minutes.

EULA wrote:
3.You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-02-12 10:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.

.
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-02-12 10:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: HVAC Repairman
lmbo if an evil goonie or a stupid testie said the same thing y'all be like DEATH TO ALL MARKET BOTTERS

edit: i didnt hit refresh so SUCK IT ANDSKI

Follow me on twitter
Whitehound
#29 - 2013-02-12 10:57:52 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.

Frankly, a bot could not be faster than this guy.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#30 - 2013-02-12 10:58:24 UTC
I'm really not surprised by this action...
And due to it being a personal matter with a Biomassed toon, we'll know nothing...
Expect either a nice and shiny lock on this thread, or a trip to the Bermuda Triangle...
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#31 - 2013-02-12 10:58:41 UTC
Wescro wrote:
Maybe my impression is incorrect here, but I was imagining his "in-game browser script" to not be very different from how EVE-Central calculates profitable trade items for haulers. The reason I say that is arbitrary is because if you stretch it, simply opening a notepad and writing down "buy x units of y" could be considered

Quote:
...patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency...


Now if he was automating keypresses and clicks, then I guess we can all agree it was wrong. But simply using a third party script that doesn't interact with the client, aka doesn't play the game for him, that should be ok.


no ingame advantage to eve central scraper user at all, as I can access the data without the scraper - its on a public site.

also they have defined at various as accessing and processing logs to not be cheating, and to be different from trying to "read" the live client.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-02-12 10:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Whitehound wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.

Frankly, a bot could not be faster than this guy.

my point is that you get a "slow down, you have to wait x seconds before you are allowed to modify another order" popup if you modify too many orders in a short timeframe.

.
sloany
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-02-12 11:00:16 UTC
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
If he created what was effectively his own UI, CCP is foolish to ban someone for improving on the pile of **** they've created. Games like WoW and TSW have allowed user created UI's, and benefited massively from their players efforts, to this day I don't understand why CCP wastes massive amounts of developer time making small UI tweaks their players could do for them.

The market UI is a prime example, I mean seriously, how many of you have actually gone through and updated a few hundred orders? It's a tedious pain in the ass, and for no good reason. CCP needs to either allow market bots (just like the real world), or fix the UI so there isn't such an incentive to use them. And I say that completely regardless of whether the case discussed in the OP involves botting or not.

If anything the reverse needs to happen. There's nothing more annoying than a station trader, and making it easier will have a negative effect on the market.
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-02-12 11:00:42 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.


I bet you can, under the right circumstances (not Jita). Go to "my orders"

Double-click - 0.13 seconds
Roll mousewheel up/down once - 0.10 seconds
Press enter - 0.15 seconds
Move mouse to next order - 0.68 seconds

Use the remaining one second to account for UI delay and develop arthritis.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#35 - 2013-02-12 11:00:52 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.



Hey, we're going from what it says in the original Eve Uni forum post.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-02-12 11:00:54 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
people should stop talking about things the don't understand.

you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.


It is quite easy to modify orders quickly with a macro. All you have to do is speed up recorded mouse movements and a few copy paste commands.

@OP:

So you received 300b from a botter/macro user. You knew the isk was probably obtained illegally... you asked ccp about it. Then your surprised when they agree and take the isk away. Roll
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#37 - 2013-02-12 11:03:29 UTC
sloany wrote:
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
If he created what was effectively his own UI, CCP is foolish to ban someone for improving on the pile of **** they've created. Games like WoW and TSW have allowed user created UI's, and benefited massively from their players efforts, to this day I don't understand why CCP wastes massive amounts of developer time making small UI tweaks their players could do for them.

The market UI is a prime example, I mean seriously, how many of you have actually gone through and updated a few hundred orders? It's a tedious pain in the ass, and for no good reason. CCP needs to either allow market bots (just like the real world), or fix the UI so there isn't such an incentive to use them. And I say that completely regardless of whether the case discussed in the OP involves botting or not.

If anything the reverse needs to happen. There's nothing more annoying than a station trader, and making it easier will have a negative effect on the market.



If you want to kill station trading, make it so anybody can do it without needing much of a brain. Nothing will kill it faster.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-02-12 11:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
I'm very sure that you can't modify 30 orders within a minute - whether with macros or by hand.



Hey, we're going from what it says in the original Eve Uni forum post.


the original Eve Uni post was second-hand information and used "update" which is much more ambiguous than "modify"

as I said above, EVE blocks you from changing too many orders within a short timeframe (I run into this all the time when I dump assets on buy orders).

.
RAP ACTION HERO
#39 - 2013-02-12 11:04:17 UTC
I DIDN'T DO NOTHING

vitoc erryday
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-02-12 11:04:38 UTC
white knights are bad people didnt you see THE DARK KNIGHT

i only made this reference so i could call sreegs THE BATMAN

Follow me on twitter